Weapon Focus (One Handed Firearm of your Choice)
Quick Draw
Dazzling Display (Tax)
Gun Twirling
The main things here are quickdraw and Gun Twirling
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/grit-feats/gun-twirling-grit
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/quick-draw-combat---final
The way this works is that Gun Twirling has a secondary ability that I wish was a separate feat. It provides you with the ability to holster your weapons as a free action. Quick Draw allows you to draw your weapons as a free action, together you can use the feats to Aim, Shoot, Aim, Shoot, Holster your first Gun, Reload your second gun, fire that gun, holster your second gun, reload your first gun, and fire...etc etc.
The issue is that the feat tax is bloody real to accomplish this. A duel wielding Pistol build ala Revolver Ocelot has to take the following feats:
Rapid Reload
Weapon Focus
Quick Draw
Dazzling Display
Gun Twirling
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Greater Two Weapon Fighting
And then you try to figure in the other usual gunslinger feats like Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Snap Shot, and Signiture Deed just to name a few...you find yourself only coming into your own around...say 17th level.
There is a way around this though, but it involves using the Trench Fighter Archetype.
Doubling the number of feats you get as a fighter for the mere cost of needing to pick up the Amateur Gunslinger feat as a pre-requisite for Gun Twirling, this Archetype allows you to gather the whole build together by 12 as a human Trench Fighter.
1: Amateur Gunslinger
1: Rapid Reload
1: Weapon Focus
2: Quick Draw
3: Dazzling Display
4: Gun Twirling
5: Two Weapon Fighting
6: Point Blank Shot
7: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
8: Precise Shot
9: Deadly Aim
10: Rapid Shot
11: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
12: Improved Precise Shot
All told, this allows you to get off 8 Shots during a turn with 8 feats left to spend on whatever else you want. Also that above list is NOT the optimal order to get the feats in, I was just cataloging them as I figured out which I needed. Arrange in the order you think would give you the best damage, remember that you need Gun Twirling before Two Weapon Fighting is allowed.
So, sure those shots have a terrible chance to hit normally what with the -12 penalty to hit at level 20 after Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, and Duel Wielding One Handed Weapons...but you are rolling against touch AC which is the Gunman's specialty. Trading hit chance for damage is your go-to operation. You are getting 8x your Dex modifier +8x Deadly Aim, +8x1d8, +8x Enhancement Bonuses...as long as you don't roll a misfire. I'd keep a backup pair of pistols on you incase one breaks and you are in the middle of a massive shootout.
Also, consider using a small pistol in your off hand if you are medium, that weapon will receive a -2 to hit but your main hand will receive a +2 since the inappropriately sized pistol would probably count as a light weapon. Get that ruled on by your DM, it gives 5/8 of your attacks +2 for a cumulative +10 to hit over all the attacks. Well worth the loss of damage if you are having trouble hitting, which you shouldn't be...but I thought I would throw it in there.
Anyway TL,DR: If you can build your way there, the extra three attacks are well worth the tax. If you want to be a fighter. Sorry Gunslingers, the cost is just too heavy except for high level and mythic games.
What happened to the Weapon Cord cheese?
that's a crazy tax but still cool. i was trying to figure out how to do that myself so thanks!
You'd want to be playing with a generous GM to get the number of free actions per round that you'd need for this to work.
ehhh how many free actions per turn would you need to fire 8 shots like this?
if they are a lot i foresee a great deal of table variation
A LOT, the total would be 16 if you used both guns equally but since the main gun gets an additional shot there are slightly less. I am not counting the exact amount.
The table variation would be real, which is why you would talk to your GM about it first. Honestly it is a lot easier with actual revolvers but who ever runs a campaign where you get two of them <_< Besides, most GMs are pretty cool with things that require 7 Feats to accomplish, so long as you explain the feat tax and how blindingly fast your character is I think it should be cool with most >_>
As for making it a gunslinger build, the penalty's to hit really hurt but I considered it possible. The main disadvantage is that you do not get Rapid Shot (Requires PBS) and that you are wildly imprecise against anything in melee or in cover. I assume you mean at level 2 that you are taking Deadly Aim since Rapid Fire is not a feat you will have qualified for at that point.
Honestly, a Rapid Fire/Deadly Aim build deals more damage than a two weapon using build until the two weapon build manages to acquire any one of:
1: High Enough Enhancement Bonus on Both Guns
2: Deadly Aim
3: Rapid Fire
4: +s to Hit because as I said, -12 to hit at level 20 kind of sucks.
The pros of being a gunslinger are varied and numerous, I agree, I just feel that the penalty may be too high.
Regardless, if you are going to be a gunslinger, consider the Ratfolk unique Archetype. While I believe Pistolero is better overall, it certainly adds some flavor.
Also, as a Trench Fighter, a 1 level dip into Gunslinger gets you grit, Gunsmithing, and more importantly Quick Clear.
Something to keep in mind
EDIT: Also, Alchemical Cartridges reduce the step by one but boosts the misfire chance by one. This pushes a standard pistol to a free action to reload BUT causes it to misfire one a 1-2 instead of just a 1.
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What happened to the Weapon Cord cheese?If Jason Burlman can't do it in real life, martial characters don't get to do it in the game.
I still want to see if Jackie Chan can do it. If Jackie Chan can do it in a movie, then a character can do it in Pathfinder.
Also, I don't know much about firearms, but how are you reloading so quickly? It seems like it should be a move action from Rapid Reload. I'm sure you have an answer; I'm just curious about how it works.
Rapid Reload Feat + Paper Cartridges
I wanted to avoid the dropping technique since I think it is honestly silly, but thank you for taking the time to write that out Avoron.
I usually just go a 2 level dip in alchemist to grab the extra arm discovery. Makes reloading 2 guns so much easier.
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one of the NPC minions of the bard wields 4 guns, and can get off 5 attacks in a round. Reloading isn't really a worry generally because he's using revolvers.
Well, your players have NPC minions, who apparently have four arms, and access to advanced firearms.
While I am sure said minion puts out respectable DPR, it's far from the default power assumption of the game.
A good count Cnetarian. I didn't even think of that.
Darn, that is fun! Makes me feel like I'm revolver ocelot just spinning my gun around and slamming down a fresh paper cartridge 8 times in a turn. Really fits the theme of gun-twirling too!
I would also like to mention that your build is good with the substitution of Rapid Shot for Deadly shot. Exactly what I would have eventually posted if you didn't.
Sadly, I just looked it up and Dead Shot does not allow you to use two weapons for it...which is sad and completely fair.
I...
I found a way to break Gunslinger...again. Like, my god.
...
You can duel-wield small double hackbuts. They count as one handed firearms since they are small sized and do not need to be mounted.
That is -2 to hit for 2d10 damage...in each hand with a weapon that has a capacity of two shots. Plus you can reload the guns as free actions...and get 8 total attacks.
WHY??????
Also, slinger 1/Trench Fighter X is pretty good for this since it gets you the feats you want AND quick clear which is vital.
But seriously...WHY????
Am I missing something? Don't the firearm rules say that
"The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it, the exception being siege firearms and Large or larger creatures."
This.
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Am I missing something? Don't the firearm rules say that
"The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it, the exception being siege firearms and Large or larger creatures."
Colossal sized musket all day
Colossal sized musket all dayAm I missing something? Don't the firearm rules say that
"The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it, the exception being siege firearms and Large or larger creatures."
I remember reading a dev (maybe JJ) post saying that a gun too large to be wielded prior to this rule going into play still can't be wielded.
Made me sad, I was hoping to mess around with that + the Goblin feat that allows you to reduce size penalties on guns.
Colossal sized musket all dayAm I missing something? Don't the firearm rules say that
"The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it, the exception being siege firearms and Large or larger creatures."
I remember reading a dev (maybe JJ) post saying that a gun too large to be wielded prior to this rule going into play still can't be wielded.
Made me sad, I was hoping to mess around with that + the Goblin feat that allows you to reduce size penalties on guns.
Then what's the point of Avoron's quote?
the best way to solve the reloading issue is just to carry more holsters and more guns. Pirates used to carry 6 or so commonly so they could quickly fire again while board, as reloading on an enemy ship or on your ship isn't exactly the best idea in combat.
Then what's the point of Avoron's quote?Colossal sized musket all dayAm I missing something? Don't the firearm rules say that
"The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it, the exception being siege firearms and Large or larger creatures."
I remember reading a dev (maybe JJ) post saying that a gun too large to be wielded prior to this rule going into play still can't be wielded.
Made me sad, I was hoping to mess around with that + the Goblin feat that allows you to reduce size penalties on guns.
See thisThen what's the point of Avoron's quote?Colossal sized musket all dayAm I missing something? Don't the firearm rules say that
"The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it, the exception being siege firearms and Large or larger creatures."
I remember reading a dev (maybe JJ) post saying that a gun too large to be wielded prior to this rule going into play still can't be wielded.
Made me sad, I was hoping to mess around with that + the Goblin feat that allows you to reduce size penalties on guns.
So it does nothing? So much for 8d6.