So first off Ninja is the alternate class for Rogue which means if you have a level in one you can't have a level in the other. There are Rogue archetypes that let you use poison, and improve your trap disarming, and some rouge talents that let you set traps based off the rangers trap list. The Poisoner Rogue Archetype and the Trapsmith Rogue Archetype stack as well so you can take both of them, but they replace other class features.
Stealth - Ninja's are better at stealth because they get ninja tricks that let you cast invisibility as a swift action (Vanishing Trick).
Mobility - Ninjas are a little better at mobility since they have Light Steps, and they can use Ki to give themselves a bonus to move speed for a round. Both are solid.
Sneak Attack - Ninja's do just as much sneak attack damage as a rogue, except they can have it hit more reliably due to their reliable invisibility.
Poison - Ninja's get poison use at level 1 for free, allowing them to make sure they don't poison themselves when using poison. They also get a trick called Choking Bomb that acts like a poison, but doesn't cost money, and the save DC scales with your level.
Trap-Making/Disarming - Here's where the ninja loses to the rogue. The rogue has Trapfinding and Trapsense which both make the rogue better at traps. However, a ninja has disable device as a class skill too, so you can get a ninja who is almost just as good at disarming traps. I can't think of any archetypes that lets you build better traps as a rogue. You have to be a Ranger with the Trapper Archetype to get cool trap building abilities.
I would therefore recommend that for your interests you play a ninja over a rogue. With a 25 point buy and a 8-18 cap you can get your stats up pretty high. In general there are two standard builds for the kind of guy you're talking about.
1.) First, there's the classic two-weapon fighting version. In tihs build you'll focus more on DEX and rely on your sneak attack damage to get your damage output up.
2.) Second is the two-hander build. In this scenario you build your ninja/rogue with higher strength and then grab a Katana and power attack. You'll do less damage on a full round attack, but you'll have more flexibility since you'll do plenty of damage regardless of whether you're in sneak position or not.
Which one of those sounds better?
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A trait which i dont remember the name gives you Trapfinding (For magical traps) so at the end of the day the rogue only has trapsense as a plus, which is as good as skill focus(perception), actually is worst.
A dip in swashbuckler could be desirable for slashing grace(swatooth sabres) for twf, but devish dance or fencing grace are also good options for enihanding.
Improved Eldrtich heritage(Shadow) gets you Hide in plain sight and also teleportation in the shadows(yes its as cool as it sounds). You need cha to qualify but thats coold because ninjas need cha anyway
The rogue will ultimately have a higher skill bonus in disarming traps, but if a ninja is what you wanted to play I wouldn't let this dissuade you. You'll probably have some fun with the ki pool.
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A ninja is just a rogue with more limited, but shinier toys. They are much more focused on stealth and combat than the general rogue, but their Ki abilities are really fun and quite powerful.
If you feel the need to be able to disable magical traps, a dip into Trapper Ranger archetype will give you that, a boost to BAB, full martial proficiency, and medium armor proficiency which will let you wear mithril medium armor (counts as light for everything except proficiency).
Ninja is an excellent member of a party. Are you getting full wealth by level for 3rd?
25 pt buy will let you get 18 dex, allowing the following stats before racial modifiers.
14 - 5
16 - 10
14 - 5
10 - 0
10 - 0
14 - 5
Any dex-boosting race will work well with this array.
Elves will have slightly lower HP, but will have more skills, get low-light vision which is very helpful to avoid concealment (which prevents sneak attack unless you take a particular feat or talent), and bonuses to spells that are generally will saves, which is a poor save for rogues/ninjas.
Halflings will get a boost to Cha for more Ki, and have extreme stealth capabilities and boosts to other useful skills and saves. The reduction in strength won't make that much difference if you can get an agile weapon or succeed on sneak attacks.
Humans get a feat, which is very helpful, and more skills.
Half-elves get a skill focus feat, which is great for skill monkey PCs, low-light vision and similar bonuses to elves.
Half-orcs get darkvision, which avoids concealment in nearly any light situation, the option for a natural weapon, an option for a bonus to all saves (which you can increase further with the Fate's Favored trait), great racial weapon proficiencies, and lots of options.
Dwarves are less useful, but you can take the boost to CON and use the points it frees up to compensate for the lower Dex. Gnomes are the same, but with the boost to stealth that small gives and the ability to take Arcane strike due to the racial SLAs.
If non-core races are an option, there are tons of good ones.
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Hi Xuru, congrats on making your first character. I would also put in a recommendation for a strength-based ninja or rogue. To build an effective two-weapon-fighting build, your character needs:
- A big attack bonus, so you can hit even with penalties from TWF
- A big source of static damage that is applied to each hit
- A high AC or large amount of HP so you can stand still and trade hits with foes on the front lines
Unfortunately, ninjas and rogues typically only have the second item there, in the form of sneak attack; even then, you won't always have sneak attack, and some enemies are immune to it. Compare to what you need to be effective as a two-handed weapon user:
- High strength
- Power attack
It frees up a lot of feats and ninja talents, too. Your Dex won't be quite as high, but honestly you won't really miss a +1 or +2 on your skills that much compared to being MUCH more effective in combat. (You get a lot more bang for your buck when you use Ki to get an extra attack, and for your first 7 levels you're just as effective whether you get a standard action or a full attack, compared to TWF where you NEED full attacks or your feats are useless.)
Oh yeah, and if you go Ninja, Vanishing Trick is really, really, really good. Smoking/Choke bomb is a lot of fun, too. Remember that you can still find and disable most traps with nothing but Perception and Disable Device.
25 point buy means Finesse ain't necessary.
Here's a sample build, it might be fun enough:
Male Human ninja 3 Archetypes Scout,
None Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3, Senses Perception +6
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DEFENSE
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AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +3 Dex, )
hp 24 ((3d8)+6)
Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +2
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OFFENSE
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee masterwork katana +8 (1d8+4/18-20)
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STATISTICS
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Str 18, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 14,
Base Atk +2; CMB +6; CMD 19
Feats Armor Proficiency, Light, Eldritch Heritage, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana), Simple Weapon Proficiency, Skill Focus (Stealth), Weapon Focus (Katana)
Skills Acrobatics +8, Climb +9, Craft (Traps) +6, Disable Device +8, Disable Device (Traps) +10, Disguise +9, Perception +6, Stealth +11,
Traits Fatal Trapper, Indomitable Faith,
Languages Common
SQ dual talent, ki pool, ninja trick, ninja weapon proficiencies, no trace, poison use, shadowstrike, sneak attack, weapon training,
Combat Gear
Other Gear masterwork katana, masterwork lamellar (leather), 0.0 gp
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Dual Talent Some humans are uniquely skilled at maximizing their natural gifts. These humans pick two ability scores and gain a +2 racial bonus in each of those scores. This racial trait replaces the +2 bonus to any one ability score, the bonus feat, and the skilled traits.
Fatal Trapper You gain a +1 trait bonus on Craft (traps) checks and a +1 trait bonus on Disable Device checks made to disable traps.
Indomitable Faith You were born in a region where your faith was not popular, yet you never abandoned it.
Ki Pool (Su) At 2nd level, a ninja gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy she can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in the ninja's ki pool is equal to 1/2 her ninja level + her Charisma modifier. As long as she has at least 1 point in her ki pool, she treats any Acrobatics skill check made to jump as if she had a running start. At 10th level, she also reduces the DC of Acrobatics skill checks made to jump by 1/2 (although she still cannot move farther than her speed allows). By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a ninja can make one additional attack at her highest attack bonus, but she can do so only when making a full attack. In addition, she can spend 1 point to increase her speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, a ninja can spend 1 point from her ki pool to give herself a +4 insight bonus on Stealth checks for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A ninja can gain additional powers that consume points from her ki pool by selecting certain ninja tricks. The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive. If the ninja possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki pool, ninja levels stack with the levels of that class to determine the total number of ki points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is set. The ninja can now use ki points from this pool to power the abilities of every class she possesses that grants a ki pool.
Ninja Trick As a ninja continues her training, she learns a number of tricks that allow her to confuse her foes and grant her supernatural abilities. Starting at 2nd level, a ninja gains one ninja trick. She gains one additional ninja trick for every 2 levels attained after 2nd. Unless otherwise noted, a ninja cannot select an individual ninja trick more than once. Tricks marked with an asterisk (*) add effects to a ninja's sneak attack. Only one of these tricks can be applied to an individual attack and the decision must be made before the attack is made.
Ninja Weapon Proficiencies Ninja are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the kama, katana, kusarigama, nunchaku, sai, shortbow, short sword, shuriken, siangham, and wakizashi. They are proficient with light armor but not with shields.
No Trace (Ex) At 3rd level, a ninja learns to cover her tracks, remain hidden, and conceal her presence. The DC to track a ninja using the Survival skill increases by +1. In addition, her training gives her a +1 insight bonus on Disguise skill checks and on opposed Stealth checks whenever she is stationary and does not take any action for at least 1 round. Every three levels thereafter, the increase to Survival DCs and the bonuses on Disguise and opposed Stealth checks increase by 1.
Poison Use At 1st level, a ninja is trained in the use of poison and cannot accidentally poison herself when applying poison to a weapon.
Shadow Bloodline
Shadowstrike (Sp) At 1st level, you can make a melee touch attack as a standard action that inflicts 1d4 points of nonlethal damage + 1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess. In addition, the target is dazzled for 1 minute. Creatures with low-light vision or darkvision are not dazzled by this ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Sneak Attack If a ninja can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. The ninja's attacks deal extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the ninja flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two ninja levels thereafter. Bonus damage from sneak attacks is precision damage. Should the ninja score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this precision damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet. With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (such as a sap, whip, or unarmed strike), a ninja can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, even with the usual −4 penalty. The ninja must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot, and must be able to reach this spot. A ninja cannot sneak attack while striking a creature that has concealment.
Weapon Training You gain Weapon Focus as a bonus feat.