Hello! So my group has expressed their desire to do an E6 (Max level 6.) low-fantasy-ish campaign. So, as a player, I thought I might go ahead and prepare for that by making ye good ol' fighter, who are usually mean business at low levels.
I'm torn on those 6 feats, because they don't allow me to complete demanding feat chains like the Greater Combat Manuevers or critical feats. Instead, I decided to go one of the three styles of combat:
Two-Handed Shock Trooper, using the Two Handed Archetype with the following feats:
20 point buy.
Human Two-Handed Fighter Lvl 6
STR: 18 (+2 human, +1 4th level)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 10
Cha: 10
F1: Power Attack
G1: Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
H1: Furious Focus
F2: Combat Reflexes
G3: Vital Strike
F4: Weapom Specialization (Greatsword)
G5: Intimidating Prowess
F6: Cornugon Smash
Defensive Polearm weilding soldier-type, Standard Fighter:
STR 16
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 10
F1: Power Attack
G1: Combat Reflexes
H1: Weapon Focus (Bardiche)
F2: Dodge
G3: Iron Will
F4: Combat Expertise
G5: Lightning Reflexes
F6: Weapon Specialization (Bardiche)
Or a weird sort of generalist fighter, also Standard Fighter.
STR 18
DEX 15
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10
F1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) [More so for flavour reasons, honestly.]
G1: Power Attack
H1: Quick Draw [To wield or unwield the shield, placing it on your back instead.]
F2: Two-Weapon Fighting
G3: Improved Shield Bashing
F4: Lunge
G5: Step Up
F6: Combat Reflexes
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Any ideas?
I do know that there's the Lvl4 Whirlwind Attack route, but I feel like that would make me lose other things. Namely, the Iron Will, Great Fortitude and Lightning Reflexes are suddenly absolutely invaluable because the levels cap at 6, and we gain no more health, saves and so on afterwards. I'm thinking that taking them would give the fighter a pretty big edge over just about anyone else, rather than the AOE attack.
I'd like to focus on the first 6 levels for now, really.
Our group agreed that further advancement after the first 6 levels will be possible in the form of bonus feats and other things, but we also agreed to make it a rather hard endeavour. So, at first, I'd like to see what I can squeeze out of my first 6 levels.
8 feats, rather than 7. So, any ideas?
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Reach is usually king. I would loose the lightning reflex . I recommend the stand still feat.
But if im only E6 I would do MoM monk 2/Brawler 4. I would do pummeling style, charge, dragon style, Dragon ferocity, focused on grapple....you can use martial flexibility to adapt to what you are fighting.
Just to say you can't take Vital strike until BAB +6, you will have to change feat priority, but you can take them all anyway.
Why combat reflexes with the greatsword build? as you say, iron will will make more sense and I'll give it priority.
And the first stats array can fit nice with the bardiche build, you will be fine with "just" 3 AoO, and the strengh is key. Hitting with +1 attack and +2 damage with 3 AoO or 4 without it.
I was going to get a ring of evasion with those reflexes (They're on par with the fortitude saves, which is quite significant) eventually, just to dodge those fireballs with undeniable swagger.
That's a fun build, but I was looking to make a fighter specifically to fill that soldier-ish concept.
E6 is really exciting, honestly. The limited level keeps a weird sort of balance between all the classes.
Casters in our campaign will be limited to learning 4th levels spells (Which is slightly above level 6) through long and studious research, ancient ruin exloration and so on. But no higher or more than 3 4th level spells. (This counts as a legendary lost magical practicum from a deceased ancient civilization of elves. It's just golden.)
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Combat Reflexes with any weapon (Since I'll have a decent dex score) allows for some battlefield control, generally. Alternatively, it could be Improved Initiative.
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Here is what I would do for E6
Str:17, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, cha 8
Race: half orc. +2 in Str, alternate racial trait sacred tattoo.
Traits: Fate's Favored & anything else
Level progression: 2 brawler-> 2 master of many style monk -> 2 brawler
Feats:
1- Improved unarmed strike, pummeling style
3- pummeling charge, power attack
4- dragon style
5- dragon ferocity, combat expertise
(Any more feats gained later: toughness, extra flexibility, improved grapple, dodge) just for starters.
What you gain:
Ac bonus untyped from monk, AC bonus (dodge bonus) from brawler, both stunning fist and knock out, EVASION, maneuver training, b rawlers strike, close weapon mastery, Flurry of own, MARTIAL FLEXIBLITY.
I can not stress how good martial flexibility is. With power attack and combat expertise you can gain ANY combat maneuvers. You can also grab feats in needed situations. They using concealment? Blind fight. They using a bow? Deflect arrows. Very good in your face fighter type. Oh and your saves piss on people.
Level 6 saves with build above and NO magic items: +11 +11 +8
Tell a caster F you. You can beat most thier saves with a 8 or better. Puts the odds in your favor.
What you think?
I think it's a really strong build! But I'm a bit more into flavour rather than total effectiveness. I'm looking for an armed and ready soldier, rather than The Hulk meets Kung Fu. Perhaps I could try the Martial Master archetype forthe fighter?
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who are usually mean business at low levels.....Namely, the Iron Will, Great Fortitude and Lightning Reflexes are suddenly absolutely invaluable because the levels cap at 6,....I was going to getting ring of evasion with those reflexes (They're on par with the fortitude saves, which is quite significant) eventually, just to dodge those fireballs with undeniable swagger.
Your first build is pretty hulk meets greatsword.
Dont be stuck on the idea of fighters are military style all the time and monk/brawler wouldn't be. Same goes for other classes. All that is role play more then riding out generalists opinion of what job they typically have.I know if you go beyond hulk meets kung fu and think like...this guy could easily be special forces..sometimes there is diplomatic mission that one cant be armed. Great body guard type.
There is alot more RP than hulk meets kung fu....especially if you play lawful like a good solider.
Alright. In that case, let me put it this way: I wish to play a classical warrior character.
I kind of asked for help on building a fighter class, not just what to build in general. I'm not trying to be rude or argue, I'm simply saying the build you presented doesn't fit my chosen character theme.
Nevertheless, thank you for replying and providing ideas.
Perhaps taking the Martial Master archetype + the Barroom Brawler feat will help me out!
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I wish to play a classical warrior character.
You mean Your idea of what a classical warrior is..you wish to play only a fighter.
I have a black belt in shaolin kung fu...you know shaolin kung fu the thing the monk was modeled after....I would easily debate the history of shaolin warriors predating any western knight.
When you use the word warrior it means:
A person experianced in warfare, a solider
Now in the beginning of the shoalin temple most Monks where retired generals experienced in martial arts. Martial=war. War arts.
Thr shoalin temple was founded in 424 ad. This date predates heavy armored warriors as blacksmithing had not developed fully.
No offense but warrior and soilder can mean a wide variety of things. Even down to tribal warriors (barbarians).
No offense given or taken im just trying to open your understanding further than fighter = warrior.
As far as fighter your gonna need defenses like saves, hp, ac. Your gonna need big armor.
Im worried cause you said low fantasy...which includes magic items being super rare. And a fighter without any magical items is rather weak in many place. Plus 2 skill points a level kind of hurts when you only get 12 skill points over 6 levels. I would hope its not all combat.
Alright. I wish to play MY interpretation of a classical warrior. As you say. Fighter, whatever you call it. Thanks for the help.
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My E6 fighter has been an absolute blast to play:
Just do a basic fighter, no archetypes. Use a two-handed sword with power attack, furious focus, and vital strike. Tack on weapon focus (greatsword) and weapon specialization (greatsword) when you get the chance.
They key to what makes the character fun to play is investing your human, 1st level, and 3rd level feats into the fast learner, improvisation, and improved improvisation feat chain. Yes, that means you'll need a 13 Int, but it's worth it. Being able to roll every skill at +4 to all skills is HUGE in E6, especially for fighters.
Now just get yourself a suit of mithral full plate of comfort and an adamantine greatsword. Grab a composite longbow and lots of different kinds of arrows, too.
If I had the character to do over, I'd probably go with half-orc for the darkvision and +2 to all saves. That puts off the improved improvisation to 5th level, but it's worth the wait, I think.
Wow! Nice feats! Those absolutely rock, especially Fast Learner! It's like getting a free Toughness Feat!
Definitely going to try and get those! (not sure about improvisation, since I don't want to take our skill monkey's role, but fast learner definitely!)
Since it's Greatsword and vital strike, maybe Measured Response is appropriate too? You could easily hit for a guaranteed 12 damage just from vital strike! And that's not counting other feats, which could easily add up to a whooping stable 27 damage!
I see the polearm master's use, but I just somehow don't dig it. :/ It's best abilities come in at high levels, and it takes away armor mastery, which is godlike in E6, especially if I want to go with medium armor.
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Is multiclassing off the table?
You could do mutagen fighter archetype 5/ barbarian 1. Take trait optimistic gambler to get alot more rage rounds a day. You would take barb at level 1 or 3.
feat out like this:
1- power attack, furious focus, weapon focus
2-
3- Raging vitility
5-
5- reckless rage
Rage+mutagen= +8 strength on top of full BaB progression. This helps in low magic item games.
There is also a mutagen fighter 4/ barb 1/ vivisectionist alchemist 1
Very s imilair to above...but -1 bab for potion creating, 1d6 sneak attack which is also good for low magic campaigns...load up on enlarge potions lol.
A level of barbarian at level one can sound interesting, but I'm not sure mutagen would be thematically appropriate. In this world, something like cure light wounds or regenerate potions would be treated as an ancient brew made by the gods themselves!
The average wizard NPC knows cantrips and that alone gives him great respect and the title of a full-blown mage. Level 3 spells are something like Archmage domain!
Meanwhile level 1 fighters with a 15 point buy is what makes up the bulk of militaristic might.
It's golden, honestly!
So things like trolls monsters that strike fear into the bravest hearts, while goblins are actually a threat that could easily whips out nations, given their breeding speeds!
So yeah. +1 masterwork longsword is a weapon capable of deciding the fate of entire nations.
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Gulian: I think what Fruian Thistlefoot is trying to say is that you are saying "I want to play a warrior" and looking at the "Fighter" class and thinking that is the only class that can meet your concept. I think he is simply encouraging you to be more open-minded and not take the class' name as a literal meaning. There are other classes who could accomplish your concept as well as if not better than Fighter.
You see some people come into these boards and say something like, "I want to make a character that can do X." rather than saying, "I want to make a Fighter that can do X." Sometimes the best means of making a character that can do what they want to do is by making it with another or a mix of other classes.
There are some very talented character builders and optimizers on this forum. It is often better if you do not tie their hands behind their back and tell them, "I want a character that can do X... BUT IT HAS TO BE A FIGHTER!" rather than just telling them what you want to accomplish with your character build and give them the reigns. It allows them to be more constructive that way.
...besides, it isn't like your character knows that he is a "Fighter". He might call himself a "Soldier", a "Ronin" or even a "Charming Individual". ;)
As for some constructive advice: If you end up going with whirlwind on a polearm user might I suggest also using a spiked gauntlet?
I'm quite aware that a class does not force you into a specific character role, worry not. My concept is simply just that. A skilled, well-balanced man-at-arms who has his armor, his weapon and infinite amounts of training and determination to sway a battle in his favour, and little else.
So far, the fighter just seemed the absolute 100% fitting class for that, especially in an E6, where a human fighter's 8 feats are essentially twice as effective as they are in 20 levels!
But I get what you're saying. Not the fighter class specifically then, just that concept.
Spiked gauntlet sounds rad, good sir! Would I need Improved Unarmed Strike in order to avoid AoO's to my face?
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I agree with Oakbreaker. A fighter is probably the least "skilled, well-balanced man-at-arms" there is. Ranger does it better with more skills, still some bonus feats and more tricks.
What usually throws me off with the ranger is the niche favored enemy ability versus the fighter's simple weapon training.
Hunter's bond is seriously good though and I can probably work out some sort of replacement to take away the "naturey feel" from the class.
Straightforward and business like. Right up my alley, noted that one down.
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Fruian, no worries mate! One way or another, your input helped me figure out one way of approaching things for sure. Martial Versatility looks truly promising.
And likewise forgive me for any rude remarks I may have made!
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What can be a bit of a setback with the ranger is that he gets only one combat style thing in E6, if memory does serve. That limits him quite a bit, and his last combat style basically limits him to only one feat to invest in his next progression of combat style stuff.
I'm leaning a little more towards two-handed and it seems to me that Combat Styles are a waste for that since it's literally just: 13 STR -> Power Attack -> Done.
You get 6 feats by level 6 as a human ranger rather than 8 as a fighter and lose full speed in medium armor + weapon training and specialization.
Is it worth it?
I Think i undestand the idea of a nononsense warrior in a low magic World. With the classes in the ACG i Think options like slayer sounds attraktive. If you Pick ranger combat style at 2 and 6 and combat trick at 4 you only lose 1 feat to the figther. And studies combat 2 is IMOP as good as weapon training 1. Sneek attack is only 2d but combat style allow you to Pick feats that no figther Can get in E6.
The slayer is also a well trained warrior. And he can give things like bleeding attack not so great in High level game but deadly in low magic E6 games.
On the figther i Think it seems you are already well informed.
What about the Guide? Focus on one enemy, he turns into your flavoured enemy.
I could add the skirmisher in there to get rid of the spellcasting and give me hunter tricks. (I honestly have no idea how they work or how useful they are.)
Slayer seems very interesting as a choice! It's kind of ironic how all these class's have to spend a move action to get their guns out.
Slayer literally makes me lose only a single feat, but makes up for it, perhaps. Sneak attack actually makes it an entirely different sort of thing. I could see a medium armored elf slayer with a finessed Elven Curve Blade, although that's another sort of apple entirely.
So ranger... Freebooter really offers something the fighter lacks: coordinated leadership.
That's seriously interesting.
So, if I took a ranger with a polearm, how would I build him? I can't see too many advantages from the two-handed combat style right now.
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The natural weapon line is nuts, but that seems an entirely different character concept. Might be my next character, though! It sounds interesting as a kind of Druidic Monk thing.