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For Society play, I want to build a character that is a battlefield tactician and is Int-based instead of Cha. I know of the Battle Herald but that seems Cha-based. Also, I would like for the character to use diplomacy and maybe other Cha skills as Int skill(s) if possible. This would be someone that works with generals instead of with the troops if that makes sense. I know that doesn't make alot of sense or direction to say the least.
Seekers of Secrets has the Student of War prestige class, which gets some Int-based features and lots of skill points. You might also consider the Lore Warden fighter archetype, which gets extra skill points and all Int-based skills as class skills. It also gives Combat Expertise for free, which helps qualify for Student of War.
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Those classes look good but I'm looking for something that "commands the party" type of thing like a cavalier's tactician ability or a holy tactician paladin's battlefield presence. I would also like something that would last all day too. If it doesn't exist, I'll have to settle with low Int and skills.
Well, there is the Sensei archetype for monks, which gets some bardic performances (including Inspire Courage), but that's based on Wisdom instead of Int. I think that's the closest you're going to get.
A few options:
The one that fits the most in my opinion seems to be the Vanguard Slayer. You have a lot of party boosting abilities, and you can take the Studied Ally talent to help out other party members. A lot of your Talents are based off Intelligence, so you can use them to help in battle (like Assassinate or Painful Strike).
There is the Tactician Fighter. Sadly, it's Int-scaling abilities only come to the fold very late in the game (level 11th), so you are mostly a Fighter until then (but a good one at that).
There's the Exemplar Brawler, which doesn't scale with CHA that well (only gets a few more rounds of Performance), and you can easily get the Clever Wordplay trait to make Perform based off INT rather than CHA, if you wanna exploit something like Intimidating Performance.
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Mechanically, there isn't a whole lot of options for tactics in the sense of sitting down in a war room and going over a battle plan. Most of that should be done with RP and skill checks if necessary. This is just because almost 100% of combat in D&D and PF is small party skirmishing so there is no real reason to have fleshed out large scale rules.
Ultimate Campaign has some options for large scale fighting, but there aren't many character options for becoming optimized in those sub-rules.
If you want your character to have a tactical bend, I'd go with a class that has some sort of buff sub-role to it, like Evangelist Cleric, or any Bard or Skald, or Exemplar Brawler. Then give him a reasonable Intelligence or Wisdom and role-play him as being a smart leader instead of a charismatic leader. Even if his mechanics are keyed off of Charisma (and therefore has a high charisma) you can still skin the mechanic however you want, including saying that your Inspire Courage buffs are from smart tactics instead of inspiring words.
Other options would be a class that gains teamwork feats and can share them with other PCs, like Cavalier.
All of these options, however, are leading a skirmish, not leading a war.
A shame that its for Society play and not a home game, or you could have just played an actual Tactician.
Inspiring Commander Cavalier is the best, if you like to go third party.
How about the Divine Strategist Cleric, or if you actually want to mechanically benefit an army the Divine Commander Warpriest? The Divine Strategist in particular benefits from a high INT and since it doesn't get Channel Energy it doesn't need CHA.
Well, I feel like an idiot... I completely forgot about the Vanguard Slayer... Oops...
I hadn't looked at that archetype before--that's pretty nice.
One thing I'd recommend for a party tactician character is make sure you have your knowledge skills accounted for.
You have several options to do this (other than bard, obviously):
A couple of levels of Lore Warden (fighter archetype) can make a nice backbone to an int-based fighter. You get all knowledge skills as class skills and an extra 2 skill ranks per level to invest in them. You still get all martial weapons, the regular fighter bonus feats, and Combat Expertise for free at 2nd (which can open up a lot of teamwork feats for you).
Investigator is my new favorite dip for smart-fighter types. All knowledge skills, nice list of class skills, lots of ranks available....what's not to like?
Depending on your race, there's a feat called Breadth of Experience that's really nice for non-bard knowledge characters.
For diplomacy and such based on int, try one of the following traits:
Bruising Intellect (Intimidate with int)
Clever Wordplay (Use Int for any Charisma skill)
Student of Philosophy (Use Int for bluff and Diplomacy)
It's not an aura but it's full duration.
Was there a new feat that gave your animal companion all of your teamwork feats?
Not quite.
Pack Tactics makes your pet 'count' as though it had the feats, but it doesn't benefit from them. It's mostly to trigger those feats on other players or you.
Was there a new feat that gave your animal companion all of your teamwork feats?
There is a magic saddle that gives your mount all your teamwork feats. It's in Ultimate Equipment.
Nope.
Other thoughts include the Blackjack fighter -- for sharing teamwork feats it can really be solid. There is no limit on what teamwork feats you can share or how often you can share them. It does eat up bonus fighter feats and your bravery class feature but otherwise mixes well with various other fighter archetypes.
Don't forget that the amateur investigator and combat inspiration line of feats are open to you. Three feats for a +4 to hit and damage with whatever melee weapon at hand is useful. Now it is only against one creature at a time and eats some action economy so you'll have to contend with that.
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Other thoughts include the Blackjack fighter -- for sharing teamwork feats it can really be solid. There is no limit on what teamwork feats you can share or how often you can share them. It does eat up bonus fighter feats and your bravery class feature but otherwise mixes well with various other fighter archetypes.
Don't forget that the amateur investigator and combat inspiration line of feats are open to you. Three feats for a +4 to hit and damage with whatever melee weapon at hand is useful. Now it is only against one creature at a time and eats some action economy so you'll have to contend with that.
First, I think I'm going to go Lore Warden then to a prestige class. It is the least tactician-y of the classes and archetypes but there is just something off-putting about the others and something drawing about this one. No idea why though. I might go Student Of War, Horizon Walker, or Sentinel.
The problem with the Blackjack is that it really only works with other Blackjacks.
I didn't notice the feat tree before. I may use that tree or take the Animal Ally tree.
Are there more feats or traits that turn skills to Int-based? Are there any archetypes that mix with Lore Warden besides Martial Master?
Yeah having to go to level 8 is a pain. Over all I think it's worth it, but I can see why if you are moving out quickly it wouldn't be for you.
Other thoughts include the Blackjack fighter -- for sharing teamwork feats it can really be solid. There is no limit on what teamwork feats you can share or how often you can share them. It does eat up bonus fighter feats and your bravery class feature but otherwise mixes well with various other fighter archetypes.
Don't forget that the amateur investigator and combat inspiration line of feats are open to you. Three feats for a +4 to hit and damage with whatever melee weapon at hand is useful. Now it is only against one creature at a time and eats some action economy so you'll have to contend with that.
First, I think I'm going to go Lore Warden then to a prestige class. It is the least tactician-y of the classes and archetypes but there is just something off-putting about the others and something drawing about this one. No idea why though. I might go Student Of War, Horizon Walker, or Sentinel.
The problem with the Blackjack is that it really only works with other Blackjacks.
I didn't notice the feat tree before. I may use that tree or take the Animal Ally tree.
Are there more feats or traits that turn skills to Int-based? Are there any archetypes that mix with Lore Warden besides Martial Master?
The only archetype that stacks with Lore Warden is Martial Master, though I don't recommend it at all if you plan to go Student of War.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Know Thy/Your Enemy features don't work well together, since you need to spend a ton of actions to get them ready.
I personally prefer Tactician into Student of War too, since you get Armor Mastery. Going Student of War means having low Dexterity to make best use of Mind over Metal, so being a low Dexterity Lore Warden for 5 levels is suicide. The Tactician has a better shot at surviving, I think.
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Other thoughts include the Blackjack fighter -- for sharing teamwork feats it can really be solid. There is no limit on what teamwork feats you can share or how often you can share them. It does eat up bonus fighter feats and your bravery class feature but otherwise mixes well with various other fighter archetypes.
Don't forget that the amateur investigator and combat inspiration line of feats are open to you. Three feats for a +4 to hit and damage with whatever melee weapon at hand is useful. Now it is only against one creature at a time and eats some action economy so you'll have to contend with that.
First, I think I'm going to go Lore Warden then to a prestige class. It is the least tactician-y of the classes and archetypes but there is just something off-putting about the others and something drawing about this one. No idea why though. I might go Student Of War, Horizon Walker, or Sentinel.
The problem with the Blackjack is that it really only works with other Blackjacks.
I didn't notice the feat tree before. I may use that tree or take the Animal Ally tree.
Are there more feats or traits that turn skills to Int-based? Are there any archetypes that mix with Lore Warden besides Martial Master?
The only archetype that stacks with Lore Warden is Martial Master, though I don't recommend it at all if you plan to go Student of War.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the Know Thy/Your Enemy features don't work well together, since you need to spend a ton of actions to get them ready.
I personally prefer Tactician into Student of War too, since you get Armor Mastery. Going Student of War means having low Dexterity to make best use of Mind over Metal, so being a low Dexterity Lore Warden for 5 levels is suicide. The Tactician has a better shot at surviving, I think.
Student Of War levels don't give Fighters their abilities. The only two prestige classes that allow you to continue with complete class ability progression are Winter Witch and Evangelist.
Oh, I just meant it wasn't worth continuing with the Lore Warden beyond level 6 if you planned to go Student of War.
Yeah having to go to level 8 is a pain. Over all I think it's worth it, but I can see why if you are moving out quickly it wouldn't be for you.and if you use it on teammates who aren't Blackjackets, the effect only lasts minutes instead of hours.
Infinite Minutes > limited rounds
Yes it takes a minute each time it does down bu there really is no excuse beyond an obscenely long combat to not have it up. It costs no resources and can be used infinite number of times per day. Always having lookout, or escape route up is nice.
But again neither here nor there since you need a quick dip instead.
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Vanguard Slayer is probably the best Tactician class for an INT heavy character. His version of Tactician is way better than the limited dreck the Fighter (Tactician) and Cavalier get since the Tactician gets to share exactly 1 feat you have to qualify for at 5th level, and the Cavalier can't grant anything besides the two he gets with Tactician and Greater Tactician until 17th level. Vanguard can automatically share any Teamwork feat he knows and give everyone 1/2 his studied target bonus for a number of rounds equal to his Int mod. His Ever Ready ability combined with the Lookout feat and his big initiative bonus also means your party will probably never have to worry about being surprised ever again, and may be able to completely turn surprise rounds around.
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But when do you know to use tactician + lookout?
You get 1/2 level to initiative and can always act in the surprise round. I'm fairly certain you don't even need to use the ability pre-emptively, the Vanguard should be able to activate it on his turn in the surprise round and allow all his allies to act.
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But when do you know to use tactician + lookout?You get 1/2 level to initiative and can always act in the surprise round. I'm fairly certain you don't even need to use the ability pre-emptively, the Vanguard should be able to activate it on his turn in the surprise round and allow all his allies to act.
Hmm... Is there a fighting style that doesn't relie on feats or only needs very few?
Two-Handed. Power Attack and Furious Focus, end of list of feats.
You could always make use of Combat Style Slayer talents to get Two-Weapon Fighting with low dexterity.
You want to have extra feats or do you want to go Weapon Finesse?
Actually, is there a better fighting style for dex builds?
Two-weapon fighting is a standard option for dex builds, as is the Dervish Dance/Slashing Grace build. (These last two let you get Dex to damage.)
Statistically, two-weapon-fighting is usually better than single-weapon fighting, even with Dex to Damage. However, Dex to Damage is useful when you can't full attack, while two-weapon fighting requires a full attack to get the benefit.
Still not sure why you'd want to go Weapon Finesse. Slayer is one of the few classes that can pull off TWF well, since if you go high Strength, you still can get the TWF feats with the Combat Style.
Unless you are playing a really low point buy system, I think you are better off without Weapon Finesse.
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Crossbow?
Crossbow is more feat intensive than normal bows, you'd be better off just using a longbow.
Since you want to spend several of your talents on additional daily uses of Tactician and devote several of your standard feats to useful Teamwork feats, I'd look at something you can use with relatively little investment. Maybe Weapon Finesse and a spiked chain? You get 2-handed power attack, and you can add Agile it to it for Dex to damage. Plus, if you decide to go with Coordinated Maneuvers as one of your teamwork options, it's got the disarm and trip properties making both of those tactics a little more viable to help expand your options.
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Crossbow?Crossbow is more feat intensive than normal bows, you'd be better off just using a longbow.
Since you want to spend several of your talents on additional daily uses of Tactician and devote several of your standard feats to useful Teamwork feats, I'd look at something you can use with relatively little investment. Maybe Weapon Finesse and a spiked chain? You get 2-handed power attack, and you can add Agile it to it for Dex to damage. Plus, if you decide to go with Coordinated Maneuvers as one of your teamwork options, it's got the disarm and trip properties making both of those tactics a little more viable to help expand your options.
Hmm... CMB scorpion whip? Combine with a +1 dueling gauntlet
TWF is super feat intensive, if you want to save those feats I would recommend grabbing a greatsword and going two-hander, take Power Attack and Improved Initiative at level 1, which is much easier than trying to squeeze Imp Init into a feat heavy fighting style. And don't forget to take a +2 Init trait.
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TWF is super feat intensive, if you want to save those feats I would recommend grabbing a greatsword and going two-hander, take Power Attack and Improved Initiative at level 1, which is much easier than trying to squeeze Imp Init into a feat heavy fighting style. And don't forget to take a +2 Init trait.
My plan was to have a whip for tripping and disarming, and the gauntlet is always on so I always have the benefits of being armed and the dueling enchantment.
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My suggestion is pretty much a complete build, but I'll post it anyway. The suggestions below are strictly guidelines, but Teamwork Feat List is your bestest buddy.
20 PB Half-elf Lvl 5 Exemplar Brawler/Lvl 2 Vanguard Slayer/Lvl 1 Daring Champion
Half-elf Skill Bonus Gets traded for +2 Will Save. I use a cutlass as a weapon, since the Falcata is not worth it for you.
Str 10
Dex 22 = 17 +2Racial +1lvl + 2 item
Con 14
Int 14 = 13+1 lvl
Wis 10
Cha 9
AC:10 base, 6 dex, 6 armor, 3 shield.
Saves:
Fortitude:+15
Reflex:+17
Will:+8
Traits: Armor Master; Reactionary
Gear: 33000 GP available, 29545 used, 3455 available.
+3 Cloak of resistance (Priority No1) 9000GP
+2 Cutlass (because screw scimitars.) 8075GP
Mithral Breastplate (because you deserve it.) +6 AC, +6 Max Dex (for you) -4 ACP. 4450 GP
+1 Heavy Shield. 1020GP
Later Purchases: +2(4000GP)/4 Dex Belt; +2/4 Wis headband, better armor, additional items.
Attacks:
+17/+12 1d6+8 18-20/x2 without TWF
+15/+15/+10 1d6+8 18-20/x2 vs with TWF
+16/+16/+11 1d6+9 18-20/x2 vs focused target, still solo
+20/+20/+15 2d6+9 18-20/x2 vs flanked target.
All retard(never go full retard)
+22/+22/+22/+17 2d6+10 18-20/x2 vs focused, flanked target with performance and Haste on.
Bardic Performance; Inspire courage +1 for a number of turns based on feats and ability scores.
You start by picking the feats with Martial Flexibility, and providing them to the party with either one of your three Tactician Abilities.
The average AC at CR of 13 is... 26. against something that will wipe the floor with you, you hit it on a 4 when not flurrying, 5 if you do. The average CR of 10, which should be most of the enemies you're fighting is 23. You hit it on a 2. Doesn't get better than that.
Investing in a will-boosting item should be your top priority. Get a Dex Belt and a magic Cutlass and you're kicking ass and taking manes. Yes, manes.
Skill points: 6.5/level, lose 1 favoured class bonus point.
HP:8d10+16 = 64(71 with favoured classes, you get 2)
DCC1:T1(Precise Strike), (lvl1) Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse(not really, but kind of.)
EB1:Martial Flexibility (use it for Slashing Grace for now, Get some more teamwork feats later.)
EB2: Slashing Grace, Brawler's Flurry.
EB3: Inspire Courage, +1 Dex
EB4: Knockout(Brawler Class Feature), additional teamwork feat/Additional combat feat/Iron Will/Extra Performance.
EB5:T2(Outflank, usually, but pick them with flexibility for the current situation, Combat Expertise is gooood for you)
VS1: +1 Initiative, Studied Target, Broken Wing Gambit, it's good.
VS2:T3(Paired Opportunists, but at this point you should know best what fits your party.) +1 Int.
Suggested Teamwork feats. Escape Route lets you move through ANYWHERE with readied actions, just so you move in a pack.
Target of Opportunity makes EVERYONE add another attack at full BAB against one target.
Stealth Synergy is good for stealth operations in order to fish that nat 20.
EDIT: I tried adding items afterwards, and I didn't do a good job.
Add them for yourself, and you'll be hitting CR+2 creatures on 2's and have the only slight weakness being your Will save, but you are tougher than the barbarian in Fort Saves (Than Commander Stubble and square chin don't waver), probably as good as the rogue at Reflex Saves, and probably better than the BSF at Will. You got skills, tactics, and you are a heavily armoured SOB that pulls his weight in any situation.
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Some answers:
1. Exemplar Brawler gets a renamed Tactician at level 5. He also gains an extra combat feat I forgot to put in.
2. Lookout is a combat feat, don't see why it's not available.
3. You are indeed correct. A Nine-Ring Broadsword should be your best weapon (Also kind of the only one, unless...See below.)
4. Barroom Brawler is definitely not a bad feat for you. The build has a lot of blank feat spots for customisation.
After level 8 you may lose a bit of steam, but continuing in either of your two favoured classes is a decent option. You also qualify for Battle Herald, unless I'm mistaken.
EDIT: I really need to check proficiencies better. The Nine-Ring Broadsword should be your best weapon, if you don't want to spend a feat on EWP.
Alternatively, you can spend a feat on Weapon Versatility and beat people with a Sharpened Combat Scabbard, in order for it to qualify as a slashing weapon.
I'm not sure that this works for Slashing Grace, but there were several people discussing it earlier on, not sure if there's been a FAQ answer for that.
For the Cavalier Order, I'd pick which ever feels best, Tome is good versus single spellcasters, and also gives you some more Knowledges and skills, which you approve of.
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1. Ah, I did miss that. Sorry.
2. Lookout only really works if it's on before combat or during the surprise round as my only option (if I understand it correctly).
3. Ancestral Arms alternate racial trait for proficiency? I like the Rope Dart, Guantlets, Spiked Guantlets, and Rope Gauntlets since they work and excluding Rope Dart, are always equipped, making them great for Dueling enchantment. I just wish they counted for Slashing Grace T.T
4. Barroom Brawler makes a great addition to any Tactician class. Thank you for the idea.
You don't qualify for Battle Herald with just Exemplar Brawler. You need Challenge.
Weapon Versatility doesn't work since the weapon remains the same type even when equipped. The feat changes the damage, not the weapon. There is the Martial Versatility trick though.