|
The enhancement bonus and the special ability are two different things.
A +1 flaming weapon count as a +2 weapon only for the price.
For all other purposes it count as a +1 weapon with the special ability flaming.
And the relevant rule for the Caster Level:
Caster Level for Weapons: The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Caster level is not the same as a level requirement though. All magic items have a CL, but that is not a level requirement on the part of the creator, it only affects the DC to craft the item. For magic arms and armor, there is a special case, where the creator's level have to be at least three times the enhancement bonus, but when it comes to special abilities it is not apparent from the text if you are supposed to use the CL of the ability as a level requirement (which is not the case with all other kinds of magic items) or use the cost modifier as a level requirement as is the case of enhancement bonuses
Caster Level for Weapons: The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
It is a caster level requirement.
While the the enhancement x3 is a special prerequisite.Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
A caster level requirement set the DC of the spellcraft check, nothing less, nothing more, not reaching it don't have a consequence, you can still make the item.
The special prerequisite is a prerequisite, if you don't meet it you get a +5 to the crafting DC. And it still set the base DC.So if you are making a +1 flaming sword and have a caster level of 6:
- the +1 part require a CL of 3 and set the DC at 8
- the flaming part require a CL of 10 and it set the DC at 15.
So the DC of crafting the sword is 15.
Same caster, but he want to make a +3 flaming sword.
- the +3 part require a CL of 9 and set the DC at 9, you don't have a CL of 9, so you are missing a prerequisite, that add +5 to all the crafting DC of the item.
- the flaming part require a CL of 10 and it set the DC at 15.
So the flaming part set the DC at 15 but you lack a prerequisite, so the DC become 20.
I have another question about crafting. The rules say that you can only work on one item at a time, and that you can only craft one item per day. But say you were working on an item from the previous day, and only need 2 hours to finish it. Could you then spend the remaining 6 hours left in the day to start a new item, as long as you don't finish it?
To expand on the above reply: Rules as Written says no, you can't. However, a GM can overrule that and allow it.
Many GMs also overrule a lot of the other aspects of crafting, sometimes to make it harder and sometimes to make it easier. A common house rule is making enhancement bonus level requirements compulsory so a plus 3 item has to have level 9 or higher crafter. Your GM has the final say.
Unfortunately, crafting is something I don't think the devs ever do in their home games, and as such, it is an inconsistent mess.
Caster Level for Weapons: The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
So:
For a +1 flaming sword, since it has both an enhancement AND a special ability, the CL would be the greater of CL-3 or CL-10, therefore CL-10For a +3 flaming sword, it would be the greater of CL-9 or CL-10, therefore CL-10
For a +1 speed sword, it would be the greater of CL-3 or CL-7, therefore CL-7.
This is a ridiculous mess. The CL is in no way associated with the power of the item. I certainly see NO problem with making it 3x the total enhancement cost of the weapon, and just leaving it at that. With that 'house rule', it would be:
+1 flaming sword: CL-6
+3 flaming sword: CL-12
+1 speed sword: CL-12
This puts it much more in line with the power of the item. In the end, with the ridiculous +5DC eliminates the caster level requirement' rule, it's of little consequence. With this rule, a +5 Vorpal sword would be just as difficult to succeed at making for a 5th level smith as a +2 flaming one. This, I believe, is also in need of a 'fix'. I personally think it should be +3DC per level you do not have. So if you are level 6, you can make a +2 total enhancement weapon, but to make a +3 total enhancement, it would add 6 to the DC. (CL-9 - Lvl-6 = 3 * 2 = +6 DC)
Of course, these are house rules. I honestly am almost to the point of publishing a complete rewrite of the crafting rules, because Paizo is never going to fix it.
|
|
I have another question about crafting. The rules say that you can only work on one item at a time, and that you can only craft one item per day. But say you were working on an item from the previous day, and only need 2 hours to finish it. Could you then spend the remaining 6 hours left in the day to start a new item, as long as you don't finish it?
Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours.
There isn't a you "only need 2 hours to finish it". It is not 125 gp hours. It is form 1 to 1.000 gp of work in 8 hours.
Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create,
|
|
I would allow that for potions and scrolls, even if the rules prohibit it.
Preparing a whole batch of identical potions in a day seem fine.
Scribing more than 1 spell on the some scroll too, even if the rules explicitly say that we can't do that: "Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price. Although an individual scroll might contain more than one spell, each spell must be scribed as a separate effort, meaning that no more than 1 spell can be scribed in a day."
I will keep the limitation for the other magic items, with another possible exception: single use items like the feather tokens if they cost less than 250 gp apiece.
stuffEssentially, you disagree with the rules simply because you want to disagree with them.
They aren't what you want? Houserule them. But your system isn't more logic than the current system.
I did say my 'fixes' were houserules. I wasn't trying to pass them off as RAW. However, the fact that this question comes up a LOT backs up my assertion that the RAW is poorly designed and written. I was using my examples to show that the REASON the question was asked, is because the current rules do NOT makes sense at face value, as the OP had come to the conclusion of, and I had shown in my examples.
I fail to see how the RAW is more logical (difficulty is based on an arbitrary number that is in no way based on any game mechanic or item power level) than my proposal (difficulty is based on the power level of the item being created). So since you are the master of this particular rule set, what IS logical about the caster levels for magic weapons?
|
CraziFuzzy, your system is a great idea. I've always hated it when the devs pull random numbers out of the air and crudely stick it to something with duct tape and bubblegum when there is a perfectly reasonable method of achieving an equally reasonable number within arms reach. I think I will be employing that in my own games from now on.
The problem is, this system was screwed up in 3.5, and they simply copy and pasted it over. They had the opportunity to fix it in the CRB, but it wasn't on their radar. Like I said, they've made it obvious over the years that the devs simply don't craft.
Then they came out with the Ultimate Equipment book. It added a lot more great weapon and armor special abilities. They again had an opportunity to fix it, but simply copied the same broken formula to the new properties.
The problem is, it seems they feel the only way most people come across magic weapons/armor is through loot drops, so it doesn't matter how they are made.
I went with 3/level after looking at the options out there for boosting craft scores. At 2/level, it means its still incredibly easy for anyone to craft an appropriate powered weapon for their level, with putting nothing but a rank per level into their skill, and the class skill bonus. This negates the utility of a great many skills and class abilities that are focused on booting the skill check further. When there are class archetypes (Soul Forger, ForgePriest, etc) that are strictly focused on crafting, and taking huge penalties to gain that benefit, that benefit should have some practical use.
In actuality, I determined 4DC/lvl was actually more appropriate, as even with that, a level 7 crafter, with 7 ranks in a class skill, and +3 from an attribute, can take 10 and guarantee enchanting a +3 weapon.
4DC/lvl works fine for an E6 game... but would be terrible for anything else. If you want to craft high level magic items then you have to focus on doing nothing but crafting high level magic items - to the exclusion of basically anything else.
4DC/lvl works fine for an E6 game... but would be terrible for anything else. If you want to craft high level magic items then you have to focus on doing nothing but crafting high level magic items - to the exclusion of basically anything else.
It's not 4DC per caster level of the item being crafted, its +4 DC per level you do not have. For instance, a 7th level character crafting a CL-9 item would add 8 to the DC.
An 18th level wizard creating a CL-16 item would only have a DC of 5+16 = 21, which should be NOT problem. that same CL-16 item, however, being created by a 12th level wizard, would have a DC of 5+16+(4*4)=37, which is far harder to obtain (though still easily doable for someone who IS dedicated to the craft).
|
3rd player level. It's the earliest I've seen a class specifically grant that feat (Dwarf forgemaster cleric archetype and Forgepriest warpriest archetype).
All the other stuff is dependent on time and craft checks that the PCs can undertake. If party is very keen on magic weapons at early levels, they can certainly aid another with the craft/spellcraft checks if they coordinate their skills.