What are your thoughts on a 1 level monk dip?
I've got a caster focussed cleric but he's not a wussy stay at the back type... he's still truly in the mix buffing/debuffing etc... He will be completely unarmoured and will rely on pre-buffs and items to get his AC up... Hence my thoughts of the dip....
I know I will be behind a level on spells but....
Benefits: Bump on reflex save, couple of extra skill points, acrobatics as a class skill (using buffs I intend to be very speedy and bouncing in and out of combat), massive AC bump - Wis to AC and bonus dodge feat
Is it worth the trade off?
why are you going in unarmored as a cleric? Since they have armor proficiency? Also you could wear full plate and not have it effect most of your casting. Also if travel is one of your domains then you'll still be moving 30ft in your full plate.
From a purely spellcasting point of view, multi-classing is not a good option. You can cover the increase to AC by spending money on mundane equipment, such as armor and shield. Putting a +1 enhancement bonus on a breastplate and light shield will get you a +9 to AC.
However, from the point of view of achieving your character concept, a level of monk will give you a lot. (+2 to all saves, boost to AC and touch AC, skills, some feats) I would search the archetypes for one you can squeeze the most miliage out of. The standard monk will have some things your cleric will have no use for.
IMO, a proper Caster Cleric is at Heavy Encumbrance in his Full Plate & Tower Shield. Neither or which he's proficient in, but proficiency's for beatsticks.
I'm being allowed to use a 3PP class (probably either Theosophist or one of the Priest classes) hence the unarmoured emphasis but also that due to travel being one of my domains, I'll be at a base 40ft speed and with expeditious retreat I'll be at 70 feet. With a good wad of points invested in acrobatics I should be able to pull off some seriously nifty moves!
My stats are being min maxed a bit too and so my strength will be pretty low... not ideal for lumping around in full armour!
Still not sure I can get over being a level behind in spells though!
If done right, a single level of Monk can turn a caster cleric into a potent battle/caster... but it's tough to just casually pick up.
If you have decent strength (and hopefully took the Fate's Favored trait), then you can use a divine buff and flurry a Temple Sword pretty decently. If your god likes scimitars, you can do the same with Dervish Dance and Crusader's Flurry. Using flurry is pretty important if you want to dip a level of Monk for combat, since the BAB you lost taking the level of Monk comes back to you - or put another way, the penalty for flurry is only really -1 once you take that Monk level. If all you're grabbing with the Monk level is Wisdom to AC, it's doubtful it's worth it compared to just using a Mithral Breastplate. If you like the flavor of it, leverage flurry to really be part Monk.
If you build it right from the start, you can also use Crusader's Flurry and Guided Hand to have a wisdom-based battle/caster. There's also a big shortcut if you have a Cleric whose favored weapon is already a monk weapon. A battle/caster hybrid Cleric can do some really fun debuff stuff with things like Aura of Doom and Domain powers; I've got a Martial Artist / Hei-Feng Cleric build that does the bad-touch thing through charging with a 9-ring, dropping aoe debuffs and slapping Touch of Chaos and high-wisdom Stunning Fist through a weapon.
You may want to look at the Sacred Fist Warpriest archtype. You'll get a lot of what you are looking for, as well as the ability to wade into combat so you can drop a cure spell on an ally about to go down.
Rule 1 of multiclassing full casters:
'Thou shalt not sacrifice caster levels'.
That extra caster level is 1 or more spell slots, if not an entire spell level. You can probably cover half of what you are getting from the monk with those extra spells anyway!
There's a 3rd party product, IIRC called Clerics of the Cloth, with archetypes that don't wear armor. The basic Unarmored Priest archetype just gets monk AC bonus when it loses armor proficiency; others add on more stuff. You might consider taking a look at that, as you'll get to keep your spellcasting at peak efficiency that way.
Rule 1 of multiclassing full casters:
'Thou shalt not sacrifice caster levels'.
I once saw someone comment that because of a single level dip, a full-wisdom Cleric 'obviously wasn't serious about spellcasting'; apparently the fact that the Cleric in question had the exact same CL, DC and level of spells as an Oracle of that level somehow wasn't 'serious' enough.
It's definitely a good idea to think really hard about losing a level of a caster class, but it's hardly terminal. Particularly for a Battle Cleric or a Battle/Caster Cleric, a single half-level of spells in exchange for a whole new set of abilities can be worth it if you really use it.
I'm being allowed to use a 3PP class (probably either Theosophist or one of the Priest classes) hence the unarmoured emphasis but also that due to travel being one of my domains, I'll be at a base 40ft speed and with expeditious retreat I'll be at 70 feet. With a good wad of points invested in acrobatics I should be able to pull off some seriously nifty moves!
My stats are being min maxed a bit too and so my strength will be pretty low... not ideal for lumping around in full armour!
Still not sure I can get over being a level behind in spells though!
I would suggest picking up Rite Publishing's Convergent Paths: Clerics of the Cloth. It is full of cleric archetypes that do not wear armor. The simplest of them simply trades in the armor and shield proficiencies for a wisdom bonus to AC. I think that is pretty much what you are after.
I would suggest picking up Rite Publishing's Convergent Paths: Clerics of the Cloth. It is full of cleric archetypes that do not wear armor. The simplest of them simply trades in the armor and shield proficiencies for a wisdom bonus to AC. I think that is pretty much what you are after.
I did have a look but IMO.... "A lack of armour does not a caster cleric make."
I like the 3PP as they are basically separate classes instead of cleric archetypes... the Theosophist is a really solid class and Flaming Crab's Priest has some great options with its Dogmas and Priest archetypes.
HINT...HINT.... PAIZO....See what can be done with even a modicum of brains and imagination!
Rule 1 of multiclassing full casters:
'Thou shalt not sacrifice caster levels'.
I once saw someone comment that because of a single level dip, a full-wisdom Cleric 'obviously wasn't serious about spellcasting'; apparently the fact that the Cleric in question had the exact same CL, DC and level of spells as an Oracle of that level somehow wasn't 'serious' enough.
It's definitely a good idea to think really hard about losing a level of a caster class, but it's hardly terminal. Particularly for a Battle Cleric or a Battle/Caster Cleric, a single half-level of spells in exchange for a whole new set of abilities can be worth it if you really use it.
I agree, but in this case he is sacrificing a level of spells for... what, exactly? He already admitted he is a caster cleric. If anything he is probably better off buying a wand of mage armour and giving it to the party's arcane caster (or investing in UMD), if he is that desperate to be unarmoured. He isn't gaining anything useful for a battle cleric - he *loses* a point of BAB!
If you're a melee touch attack cleric then I could probably see good use of a monk dip. Cartwheeling into battle and punching someone in the face or even grappling to discharge those attacks is pretty cool.
I've wanted to create a light AC Cleric who can use acrobatics to get into fights and heal in the trouble zones so I can see potential. Yes people will harp on about spell progression and yes it *does* suck but this is all about playing the character *you* want.
If you are set on being unarmored it is probably a good choice. But choosing to be unarmored and trying to compensate with a level of monk is definitely not optimal. It may be fun, and is probably playable unless your group is very optimized, but over all you are giving up a lot for very little.
Are you sure you wouldn't rather play a Sacred Fist Warpriest? At the very least, I'd rather dip the Warpriest than the monk, since at least that will give you more orison and a couple of first level spells.
IMO, a proper Caster Cleric is at Heavy Encumbrance in his Full Plate & Tower Shield. Neither or which he's proficient in, but proficiency's for beatsticks.Dat -18 to attack rolls.
Not to mention a inability to cast spells and hold a weapon at the same time.