Was Making Vampire Spawn a template a good idea?


Product Discussion

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

In the Monster Codex, on page 244, there is a new template for "Vampire Spawn" (as opposed to the rule in the Bestiary, on page 271.

What this sets up is the possibility of 2nd level characters encountering an energy draining creature of unknown abilities. A 2nd level character cannot recover from a permanent negative level.

Does this need to be "flagged" as Use With Caution?


Lord Fyre wrote:
Does this need to be "flagged" as Use With Caution?

Mods, have mercy.

Any DM throwing perma-level drains at such low-level characters either needs more experience because he has no idea what he's doing, or is a terrible person because he knows exactly what he's doing.


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I dont think we that level of handholding in the books.

Grand Lodge

Lord Fyre wrote:

In the Monster Codex, on page 244, there is a new template for "Vampire Spawn" (as opposed to the rule in the Bestiary, on page 271.

What this sets up is the possibility of 2nd level characters encountering an energy draining creature of unknown abilities. A 2nd level character cannot recover from a permanent negative level.

Does this need to be "flagged" as Use With Caution?

If a DM can't be trusted to read the bestiary entry with at least half a brain, what makes you think he's going to pay attention to a flag?

Actually this is a good thing; if a DM sends critters out like this to you at 2nd level, you'll have found out that much earlier that you're dealing with either an idiot or a killer GM.

Technological Overlord

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Fixed OP's typo, and the quoted typo, in order to make sure that this thread stays on the intended topic. I also removed a couple of posts that were only about the typo.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

The Computer wrote:
Fixed OP's typo, and the quoted typo, in order to make sure that this thread stays on the intended topic. I also removed a couple of posts that were only about the typo.

Thank You Friend Computer! :)


I think you're more likely to see a gang of them rolling with their vampiric sire.

Shadow Lodge

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LazarX wrote:

If a DM can't be trusted to read the bestiary entry with at least half

Actually this is a good thing; if a DM sends critters out like this to you at 2nd level, you'll have found out that much earlier that you're dealing with either an idiot or a killer GM.

Or possibly just that the world doesn't rubber-band to your current level, and that retreat should be considered a viable option.


DominusMegadeus wrote:
Any DM throwing perma-level drains at such low-level characters either needs more experience because he has no idea what he's doing, or is a terrible person because he knows exactly what he's doing.

*shrug* There's a wight in a first-level dungeon in a Paizo module.

Which module?:
Thornkeep


Kthulhu wrote:
LazarX wrote:

If a DM can't be trusted to read the bestiary entry with at least half

Actually this is a good thing; if a DM sends critters out like this to you at 2nd level, you'll have found out that much earlier that you're dealing with either an idiot or a killer GM.
Or possibly just that the world doesn't rubber-band to your current level, and that retreat should be considered a viable option.

Have to admit he's got a point. Also, don't forget that a GM can also give monsters absolutely piss-poor tactics, like a ghoul that doesn't coup-de-grace the paralyzed PC's.

There have been a few moments where I just haven't used some of the skills that a monster has.


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Kthulhu wrote:
LazarX wrote:

If a DM can't be trusted to read the bestiary entry with at least half

Actually this is a good thing; if a DM sends critters out like this to you at 2nd level, you'll have found out that much earlier that you're dealing with either an idiot or a killer GM.
Or possibly just that the world doesn't rubber-band to your current level, and that retreat should be considered a viable option.

Hard to argue against what LazarX is saying. Most groups won't know to run unless they've eaten the first negative level so you've already been crippled before retreating and saddled with a permanent level. Count in how difficult it is to actually retreat from combat, especially at low levels, and you've a recipe for disaster.


I think there should be more advices about how to use the things in the books. Not everyone have years of experience.

Not sure about this one since I don't have teh book though, but if the template do not alter the CR of the creature or give just a +1 or something, then a inexperienced GM coudl think is OK to use it, because taht is what CR is supposed to represent right? a CR 2 creature should not TPK a 4 level party, the CRB say it, right?

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