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Rook of the Gargoyles

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Alright so after showing the Gargoyle to my DM for an upcoming game she said I can play it. The game will be set at level 5, and I am to take 1 level of NPC Warrior or Expert (Depending on how I want to build my character) otherwise I have no rules to restrict me.

So I want to play into the lore of the Gargoyle without being too hindered by it. Just because most are Untrustworthy doesn't mean my guy has to be the stab in the back kind of guy.

Only Paizo classes, though we are allowed 3.5 feats, was considering Toughness and Trollblood (via Flaws) or Jotunbrud.

You're leaving things AWFULLY open-ended. Let's see what springs from the dark well of my mind.

Expert leading into Vivisectionist alchemist, mixed in with levels (going for fighter/thief paradigm with a little extra magic) of ranger (not sure on the archetype).

You aren't the best caster, in fact you're pretty crap at it, but you didn't become an alchemist for power, you did it because of what you are. As a living creature steeped in the elements of earth and stone you learned at an early age how fragile the more squishy, "normal" creatures of the world were. This led to study and analysis of a somewhat obsessive-compulsive nature into what life was, and what KINDS of life there were. You love dissections, anatomy, analysis; and you do it whenever you have a chance. You have a code of ethics (lawful), and you aren't EVIL per se (Neutral), you're just creepy as all hell when you get that look in your eye and unroll your kit of saws, hooks, hemostats and scalpels because the creature in front of you is dead and no one has claim to the body.

When not engaging in your intellectual hobby, you make a skillful brute and play well with others as long as they can tolerate your creepy habits. You have been known to work as both a guard and a surgeon, and (if you take an animal companion) you tame a Raven, who seems to have the same morbid demeanor as you do.

Skills include Heal, Survival, Craft (alchemy), and disguise.

Edit: Also I don't know what Trollblood or Jotunbrud are and couldn't find them in a cursory search.

Another option: In your youth your tribe was enslaved and experimented upon by an evil lich. It was not until a sacred liberator of (god of freedom and stuff) struck down this unholy master that you knew the joy of a life outside of chains. Now a follower of (Cayden?) yourself, you aren't the brightest student or the strongest spellcaster, but you strike blows for freedom and take a trophy ear from every slaver you kill. Start warrior then pure battle-cleric build, wield a spiked shield as your weapon.

Jotunbrud (3.5)
Troll Blooded (Dragon #319)

Both those ideas are very cool, and I may use a bit of the first one. I have never tried the Alchemist before.

I was actually thinking using your Alchemist idea, that would work as well or possibly better with Investigator (Especially since he is going to have a good Fort because of high Con, suring up his Will save might be nice.)

Namely a Investigator with the Infiltrator and Sleuth Archetypes. Both of which emphasis cunning and studied thought which a race of stone would have.

Have you read Classic Monsters Revisited? I think most of it is on the monster entry page for the gargoyle on d20pfsrd.com.

No I have not, I looked at the entry page, what are you specifically calling for me to look at?

The gargoyle monster entry has the ecology and some racial variants. Classic Horrors Revisited has even more nice fluff.

Do you get 5 monster HD with the ARG race? Where's the freeze ability? Why add only an NPC class?

Also check out Grummok, the gargoyle assassin over a lifetime

A sleuth investigator sounds fun, sneak attack should be great with all those natural attacks. Check out the Moonlight Stalker feats. Also consider a chameleon rogue dip.

The ARG does not gain HD from what I see and it does not gain the Freeze ability. I think the Freeze ability would put it into 40 RP.. though given that the 41 RP of Drow Noble only takes a level down, I might have to talk to the GM about this.

Well an NPC class to fit for the CR increase, otherwise its a empty level and that might be a bit odd. I mean sure I can probably due it being a level behind, but I dont want to lose out on too much such as PRC preq or something.

With just 1HD you're gonna be very squishy and underpowered.
I feel the ARG rules don't integrate well with the monster rules there.

Very true, but it is not quite a monster in the same sense of the beastery version. He would be 1 level down from the normal class, if I took Warrior instead of an empty level it would be a d10 and having a +4 to Con would make him a little more resistant to hp damage. Plus the DR 10/Magic and +5 Natural Armor would keep him from being too squishy.

How do you figure that the race or CR 5 then? IMHO you'd better use the monster entry then and build on top of that.

The rest of the party is level 5, he's level 1 (warrior/expert) and level 4 (any), with the stat mods and abilities listed in the link in the first post.

Unless I'm misreading something.

Even if it's 1/3 the +4 con and +5 natural armor will outstrip the "negative" of losing 2 hit dice by or before level 8. It makes Full Caster a poor choice (also the -2 to all mental stats is a problem) but a caster who uses his magic to augment Martial prowess or skills doesn't NEED a very high DC or caster level to git'r done.

And it should go without saying, martial or skill-monkey are just fine already.

I for a moment considered going a few levels of monk and so forth, but Flurry doesn't work with Natural Attacks, I also considered a ranged fighter, Flying 50 means I can fly mostly out of range and rain down death from above.

And yes Boring is right its going to be 1 level of NPC and then 4 levels of non-NPC class, and I can likely retrain that level much later (10 or 12 lvl)

Flying ranged is tempting, but at that point you're getting specific enough you need to answer 2 questions:

-What is the adventuring party?
and
-What are the adventures generally going to be?

Being the aerial doom, raining death from above like an angry god is fun, but if your party is 3 or 4 squishies you'll be spending a lot of time on the ground saving their hides. And if you spend a lot of time underground, flight won't be much of an issue.

Another point is that you don't need that many archer-focused feats to be "good enough" at arrowing folks. Maybe that is ONE of your tricks, but you are als a a dive-bombing, fly-by-attacking predator who hits the wizard hiding in the back (possibly even grappling and dragging him away screaming) is also an option. If you're multiclassing with fighter levels the feats are pretty easy to get for both. Plenty of fighter archetypes that should synergize with your natural attacks, too. It lets you be a switch-hitter who does ranged damage-dealing and linebacker blocking as needed and as the terrain allows. Because that's the last point, if you're in a dungeon with a low (regular) ceiling, those wings don't mean a dang thing.

Retraining...well I wouldn't allow it if I was DM, but I'm not DM.

I was thinking of using a Bow (Adaptive) for ranged combat, but when I need to get in close I was thinking of using a Belt of Strenth to enhance my already high str higher and allow him to fly-by attack, possibly make a grapple and lift the guy off the ground.

Note sure, they are keeping it pretty close to their vests.

Another path she considered letting me take was taking Leprechaun instead
The Laughing Man wrote:


And yes Boring is right its going to be 1 level of NPC and then 4 levels of non-NPC class, and I can likely retrain that level much later (10 or 12 lvl)

Ah, that makes much more sense. Good for you.

Have you considered Slayer or maybe Barbarian?

Definitely check out Classis Horrors Revisited if you can get it.
For the psychology and for the angel like gargoyles. some info from it can be found in this review.

That said an angel like oracle or paladin gargoyle could be fun.
Thanael wrote:
The Laughing Man wrote:


And yes Boring is right its going to be 1 level of NPC and then 4 levels of non-NPC class, and I can likely retrain that level much later (10 or 12 lvl)

Ah, that makes much more sense. Good for you.

Have you considered Slayer or maybe Barbarian?

I did consider Stygian Slayer, the Invisibility power combined with my 3 Natural Attacks might be very effective.

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