Counterspelling has nothing to do with this discussion.
Readying to counterspell is governed by different rules, in a different rules section, than readying other actions.
Here is the entire section of the rules:
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.
Initiative Consequences of Readying: Your initiative result becomes the count on which you took the readied action. If you come to your next action and have not yet performed your readied action, you don't get to take the readied action (though you can ready the same action again). If you take your readied action in the next round, before your regular turn comes up, your initiative count rises to that new point in the order of battle, and you do not get your regular action that round.
Distracting Spellcasters: You can ready an attack against a spellcaster with the trigger “if she starts casting a spell.” If you damage the spellcaster, she may lose the spell she was trying to cast (as determined by her Spellcraft check result).
Readying to Counterspell: You may ready a counterspell against a spellcaster (often with the trigger “if she starts casting a spell”). In this case, when the spellcaster starts a spell, you get a chance to identify it with a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If you do, and if you can cast that same spell (and are able to cast it and have it prepared, if you prepare spells), you can cast the spell as a counterspell and automatically ruin the other spellcaster's spell. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.
A spellcaster can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, but it doesn't always work.
Counterspelling is just not relevant to the discussion, as it has its own unique rules that do not apply to readying other actions, so let's stop mentioning it please!
I'm curious, do you also think "ready to use a feat" is a valid option as well, and then you could decide to Arcane Blast or Cleave when your conditions are met?
If "cast a spell" is a specific action, then "use feat" is a specific action as well.
I'm curious, do you also think "ready to use a feat" is a valid option as well, and then you could decide to Arcane Blast or Cleave when your conditions are met?
If "cast a spell" is a specific action, then "use feat" is a specific action as well.
Can you provide an example of a feat which uses a standard action and is not part of an attack action? Which is all I could find in a quick search.
Just a few examples of feats that are standard actions:
Arcane Blast
Cleave
Gorgon's Fist
Antagonize
If "cast a spell" is a specific action then "I ready to use a feat" would allow you to use any of those.
Just a few examples of feats that are standard actions:
Arcane Blast
Cleave
Gorgon's Fist
Antagonize
If "cast a spell" is a specific action then "I ready to use a feat" would allow you to use any of those.
Interestingly enough, "use a feat" doesn't appear on the list of standard actions in the table. Having the feat allows you to choose that as an additional standard action, so yes, you would have to ready, "If he casts a spell, I will arcane blast him." or "If he moves within my reach, I will cleave him."
They are their own individual standard actions. "Cast a spell" is its own individual standard action.
I would allow you to say, "If he casts a spell, I will use a spell like ability" as that appears in the list. You could choose from your selection of spell like abilities after seeing what spell he casts.
"Use feat" is on the table under "Action Type Varies"
I'd say yes you can "ready to use a feat", but, it is under action varies. You would have to specify whether you are readying a standard, move, swift, or free action feat.
"If he comes in my reach, I will use a standard action feat on him!"
Lacking any guidance on the matter from the rules or other sources (of which I have seen none), the description of counterspelling suggests you have the ability to choose the spell when your trigger occurs. The rules are meant to model the reality of the game world, which doesn't change just because you're using a different part of an abstracted ruleset. It fits the flavor of the abilities and the 'physics' of the game world. Consistency in flavor is important. Don't be the lawyer of the group.
That doesn't work because the character has no concept of a Standard Action. The character has concepts of actions: Casting a spell, attacking, Intimidating, Disarming...
Player's can't specify/identify actions based on meta-game categories that their characters have no concept of.
Players can absolutely specify/identify actions based on meta-game concepts. That's the point of the player doing it. The Character has no idea what a standard action is, but the player states what the character is readying an action for, and what action he is readying.
"It's important to recognize that the Ready an Action requires you to "identify" the action. Saying I'm going to do "something", which is what you're doing when you say you are going "ready a Standard Action", when the trigger happens is not identifying the action. The player must identify the act the character is take. "
I didn't say, "ready a standard action", I said, "ready to use a feat which uses a standard action". You have to specify the action you're taking, and "use a feat" is a valid action, which can be a number of different actions.
RAI: You should say, "i ready to cleave the guy when he is in my range" but RAW is, "I ready to use a standard action feat on him when he is my range".
I'm not going to argue that either way. But I have no qualms about a GM nixing that and requiring the action be stated from the point of view of the character.
Would you require that a spellcaster "ready to cast a spell" or "ready to cast magic missile"?
Merlin: "What are you going to do?"
King Arthur: "I haven't decided yet, but it'll take about three seconds!"
If I'm holding two weapons and I ready to attack someone who enters my threatened space, do I have to specify which weapon I'm using? That seems preposterous.
Do I have to specifically ready to trip? Or can I make that determination when I make the more general readied attack, just like I ordinarily can?
So why would I have to specify which spell I'm using? Seems silly.
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I have found that the GM's who want the most detail about your readied action are the most likely to metagame your action into nothing.
Why is it preposterous that you would have to specify which weapon you're using? Remember, you're readying to strike so quickly that you finish your attack before theirs can resolve. There is no time left for "decide what to do", which is why you have to specify the action ahead of time, instead of "I will attack or cast a spell or move".
You are physically balancing, or mentally preparing, such that you can act on a hair-trigger. If this wasn't the case, there would be no need to specify what type of action you are taking at all.
Why is it preposterous that you would have to specify which weapon you're using? Remember, you're readying to strike so quickly that you finish your attack before theirs can resolve. There is no time left for "decide what to do", which is why you have to specify the action ahead of time, instead of "I will attack or cast a spell or move".
You are physically balancing, or mentally preparing, such that you can act on a hair-trigger. If this wasn't the case, there would be no need to specify what type of action you are taking at all.
It happens in live sparring all the time. I'm waiting for my opponent to to an action. I don't predetermine what kind of kick I'm going to throw, or even whether I'm throwing a kick at all. I react to the opportunity that has presented itself.
Analogize it to an AoO. You do not have to pick which weapon you're using to make an AoO, so why would you have to pick which weapon you're using to make a readied attack?
It happens in live sparring all the time. I'm waiting for my opponent to to an action. I don't predetermine what kind of kick I'm going to throw, or even whether I'm throwing a kick at all. I react to the opportunity that has presented itself.
Analogize it to an AoO. You do not have to pick which weapon you're using to make an AoO, so why would you have to pick which weapon you're using to make a readied attack?
That works in-game as well. Ready to attack with an unarmed strike. It could be a kick, or a punch. But if you are holding a warhammer, you will balance yourself differently to prepare to smack them than you will balance yourself to kick them.
An AoO is when the opponent leaves themselves vulnerable, and you have time to react. As opposed to a readied action, when there is no "opening" and you can only perform your action by virtue of being exactly poised to perform that action.
It doesn't make sense that you could ready "I am going to kick or swing a sword or bite", or that you could ready "I am going to cast Magic Missile or Shield or Fireball or Haste" but you could not ready "I am going to swing a sword or cast Haste". IMO none of those are legal, it would be "I ready to swing a sword" or "I ready to cast Magic Missile", etc. Because that is the only action you are preparing to do, you can't have a hair-trigger reaction time doing multiple different actions.
Here's a conundrum for you Rumpus:
What if I Ready an Action to counter-spell and I make the Spellcraft check and:
1. I don't have the same spell, but I do have Dispel Magic, can I chose to use Dispel Magic at that point?
2 I don't have the counter spell and I don't have Dispel Magic...do I not get to cast any spell at all?
3. I have the spell to counter, do I automatically have to cast it?
1) "Readying to Counterspell" has unique rules that don't apply to other readied actions, which you can read where I've posted them earlier in the thread. Short answer, due to the unique rules for the "Ready to counterspell" action, you can choose to use either.
2) Correct, you do not get to cast any spell if you ready to counterspell and can't counterspell.
3) No, the rules say "you can cast that same spell", they don't say "you must cast that same spell".
Once again, let me reiterate that "Readying to Counterspell" is its own unique rules section, and trying to apply counterspell-specific rules to readied actions in general makes no more sense than applying bull rush-specific rules to combat maneuvers in general.
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This thread is special.
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It was more special when it died 4 years ago. Less special now that's alive again.