Ranged Magical Weapons, and Special Properties

[CE Chef]

A ranged magical weapon bestows the special properties it has on it's ammunition, and we use the higher of the two enhancement bonuses between ammo and ranged weapon.

I was curious if this could be used to bestow greater than +10 properties to some ammo.

Lets say you had a bow that was +1 Brilliant Energy, holy, and Shocking burst and flaming. (+10)

And then you have an arrow that is +5, Distance, Icy Burst, bane and seeking. (+10)

Does this allow the arrow to be fired at a total of more than +10 magical bonuses? The arrow would be at +5 enhancement plus all the other special abilities?

Thanks for the help friends.

[Zwordsman]

Huh. I always was of the impression that it would all transfer to the arrow except for the +# enhancements.
I think that was the point of enchanting arrows sepereately considering the massive costs (you have to enchant it a +1 first before adding more)

[Teatime42]

The enhancement bonuses wouldn't stack, you use the one with the highest bonus.

However, the qualities DO. Expensive, but useful. You can have a Green Arrow/Hawkeye/Batman thing going on with an arrow for every occasion, and the ones you use most often on the bow itself.

[Secane]

The rules does say... "A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10."

So... it gets confusing... T_T

[Zwordsman]

Ammo isn't a weapon. Ammo may be enchanted as per weapon enchanting rules but they aren't weapons. Projectile weapons say it adds it's effects to it's ammow as well. So I think it bypasses that rule completely because it's not a weapon, it's empowered via the weapon on top of it's own bonuses.

At least thats how I always viewed how it worked.. So if you were just insanely rich you could make an arrow +1 with 9 different effects on it.
and fire it through a bow+5 with 5 effects on it. TO make a +5 arrow with all the effects (assuming no effects repeat).

I figured that was the express reason you could enchant weapons.

[Lifat]

I'm reasonably sure that RAW is that the special properties stack beyond +10, but when it comes to RAI it is a lot more difficult to tell.

Personally speaking I wouldn't allow it in my homegames either way. Ranged attackers are already at a great enough advantage. They don't need more. If the bow and arrow together matched up as more than +10 then I'd allow the archer to pick and choose which effects would be active at the time of shooting.

[Zwordsman]

I could see that. Frankly unless your in crazy super lv 20+ stuff I realllly don't see it ever coming up honestly. The abilities (like magus and blade adept arcanist Arcane Weapons) that boost them usually specify "weapon" so it's not like they could spend more poitns boosting arrows with abilities.

So really I can't see it ever coming up..

[blackbloodtroll]

Who would pay for such expensive ammo?

[Zwordsman]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Who would pay for such expensive ammo?

No one haha. Though I suppose a GM might give one at lower levels meaning it to be a boss killer... though likely someone would try to just pawn it off.

[CE Chef]

That's true. It would be quite expensive, so that's the kicker.

If you're paying that much I guess it makes sense you get a little more bang for your buck.

I was unsure if it would actually come up in a game I'm running, but wanted to know the rules on the matter.

Thank you for your thoughts everyone.

[Riuken]

The most common use of this I've seen is doing something like this:
1) have a +5 adaptive flaming frost shock corrosive thundering bow (or other +5 equivalents of your choice)
2) stock an assortment of +1 arrows with only one of the following: bane (multiple types), holy, ghost touch, merciful, etc.
3) stock +1 arrows with combinations you frequently use: undead bane + ghost touch + holy, silver/cold iron + evil outsider bane + holy, adamantine + construct bane, etc.

That assumes high level and high wealth. You can do well enough with just a +5 bow and an assortment of bane, holy, and ghost touch arrows.

[Lifat]

Riuken wrote:

The most common use of this I've seen is doing something like this:

1) have a +5 adaptive flaming frost shock corrosive thundering bow (or other +5 equivalents of your choice)
2) stock an assortment of +1 arrows with only one of the following: bane (multiple types), holy, ghost touch, merciful, etc.
3) stock +1 arrows with combinations you frequently use: undead bane + ghost touch + holy, silver/cold iron + evil outsider bane + holy, adamantine + construct bane, etc.

That assumes high level and high wealth. You can do well enough with just a +5 bow and an assortment of bane, holy, and ghost touch arrows.

I agree with everything you wrote except for one thing. Once your bow is +3 or higher you no longer need silver/cold iron arrows.

See this: Overcoming Damage Reduction
+3 counts as silver/cold iron
+4 as adamantine
+5 as all alignment
But only for piercing damage reduction purposes.

[Riuken]

Lifat wrote:

Riuken wrote:

The most common use of this I've seen is doing something like this:

1) have a +5 adaptive flaming frost shock corrosive thundering bow (or other +5 equivalents of your choice)
2) stock an assortment of +1 arrows with only one of the following: bane (multiple types), holy, ghost touch, merciful, etc.
3) stock +1 arrows with combinations you frequently use: undead bane + ghost touch + holy, silver/cold iron + evil outsider bane + holy, adamantine + construct bane, etc.

That assumes high level and high wealth. You can do well enough with just a +5 bow and an assortment of bane, holy, and ghost touch arrows.

I agree with everything you wrote except for one thing. Once your bow is +3 or higher you no longer need silver/cold iron arrows.

See this: Overcoming Damage Reduction
+3 counts as silver/cold iron
+4 as adamantine
+5 as all alignment
But only for piercing damage reduction purposes.

Although that's true, I've frequently seen it houseruled away. Really, clustered shots solves this issue for a dedicated archer. Also, having them around can help another party member who doesn't primarily use a bow, or if you need to use a backup weapon. The cost increase is minimal to ensure the base is covered, at least at the point you're firing away 640gp+ each shot.

It isn't necessary, but neither is a golf bag of assorted magic arrows. It's all about covering as many situations as possible.

[Lifat]

Riuken wrote:

Lifat wrote:

Riuken wrote:

The most common use of this I've seen is doing something like this:

1) have a +5 adaptive flaming frost shock corrosive thundering bow (or other +5 equivalents of your choice)
2) stock an assortment of +1 arrows with only one of the following: bane (multiple types), holy, ghost touch, merciful, etc.
3) stock +1 arrows with combinations you frequently use: undead bane + ghost touch + holy, silver/cold iron + evil outsider bane + holy, adamantine + construct bane, etc.

That assumes high level and high wealth. You can do well enough with just a +5 bow and an assortment of bane, holy, and ghost touch arrows.

I agree with everything you wrote except for one thing. Once your bow is +3 or higher you no longer need silver/cold iron arrows.

See this: Overcoming Damage Reduction
+3 counts as silver/cold iron
+4 as adamantine
+5 as all alignment
But only for piercing damage reduction purposes.

Although that's true, I've frequently seen it houseruled away. Really, clustered shots solves this issue for a dedicated archer. Also, having them around can help another party member who doesn't primarily use a bow, or if you need to use a backup weapon. The cost increase is minimal to ensure the base is covered, at least at the point you're firing away 640gp+ each shot.

It isn't necessary, but neither is a golf bag of assorted magic arrows. It's all about covering as many situations as possible.

I don't understand houseruling that away, but even if that is true then having magical cold iron arrows quickly becomes quite expensive. Remember that while alchemical silver is only +2 gp per arrow, cold iron is x2 price AND it cost an additional 2k gold per magic item (or 50 arrows) before you can enchant it.