Like the title says, just trying to work with him on how to do this. He's pretty set on it, so like a good GM, I'd like to find a way to make it work for him. Any advice?
the issue being that he could buff his familiar with negative energy abilities and the like. Making your familiar skeletal has immediate mechanical differences.
"A skeleton loses the base creature's defensive abilities and gains DR 5/bludgeoning and immunity to cold. It also gains all of the standard immunities and traits possessed by undead creatures."
He would be adding the "skeletal" template to it, and I wanted to see if there is a rules-legal way to do this as a wizard of first level.
I'd say it'd be a feat, maybe tacked on to improved familiar. probably around the level you could have a celestial pet.
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the issue being that he could buff his familiar with negative energy abilities and the like. Making your familiar skeletal has immediate mechanical differences.
"A skeleton loses the base creature's defensive abilities and gains DR 5/bludgeoning and immunity to cold. It also gains all of the standard immunities and traits possessed by undead creatures."
He would be adding the "skeletal" template to it, and I wanted to see if there is a rules-legal way to do this as a wizard of first level.
No legal way that I know. Having it be undead is detrimental undead are destroyed at 0. Also what do you mean by buff it with negative energy effects? You do realize that a normal wizard can buff the crap out of his familiar normally. In fact it being undead cuts out a lot of buffs like morale. Familiars are relatively weak and in this case I don't see making it undead as helpful so I'd say go for it.
Edit: I'm speaking about normal familiars not improved though it's actually worse for improved as well.
I'd say that he can have a turtle that is flavored to be skeletal for free, and that he could apply the template to it with Improved Familiar at CL7.
That's a horrid deal for a feat, every other familiar even regular ones would beat it a 100 times over. Feats are supposed to be beneficial not hurt you, baring fringe special cases I see nothing game braking from a skelly turtle. Guys it's actually worse than a normal one don't punish someone more for something a little neat.
except the skeleton get's DR, and maybe some other perks. It's not a lot, but early levels that could be one tough turtle
except the skeleton get's DR, and maybe some other perks. It's not a lot, but early levels that could be one tough turtle
4 HP at level one even with DR isn't tough and it gone gone at 0, yeah no not for my familiar.
He probably wants it to be one of them bloody immortal skeletons.
He probably wants it to be one of them bloody immortal skeletons.
A "bloody skeleton" isn't a "skeleton" and that is a different question. Still the thing here is for some reason they think it's going to be some over powered beast of a familiar and well it's not. I'm really good at spotting the broken things and this just isn't it. There's far better ways of making a fighting familiar.
Even a bloody skelly turtle is of little threat.
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I don't think he's going for threat anyway. On account of picking a turtle.
I don't think he's going for threat anyway. On account of picking a turtle.
Haha that's what I've been saying, it seems like a non issue freebie for a player.
But don't count turtles out I've got an interesting Hunter w/ a Snapping Turtle tank build.
I'd say give it to him for free. The downsides seem to balance any positives of making it a skelly. One thought, does it gain the intelligence or cuz its undead has none.....
I'd say give it to him for free. The downsides seem to balance any positives of making it a skelly. One thought, does it gain the intelligence or cuz its undead has none.....
I would say it would gain it back due to being a familiar so it'd break even on the starting feat and skill.
I'm just going to leave this here...
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Ask them why. What do they see the point of it being. What are their plans for the critter in 5, 10, 15, 20 levels.
Is it just for flavor? Is there some obscure feat combo they see it blossoming into? Do they think if you say yes to this it'll let them bootstrap some "yes" later on for some weird other thing?
The answer when a player wants some odd ball thing should be "Maybe. Why? What is the plan?". Absent the knowledge of what they want it for- you can't make an informed decision about whether or not to do anything with it at all.
-S
If it's just for appearances sake, you could say that he got on the wrong side of more powerful Wizard who used Veil http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/veil.html#veil
and then Permanency
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/permanency.html#permanency
Just to make things more complicated for the fledgling Wizard, by having people assume he is evil because he has an "undead" with him all the time. In truth the Wizard who did this to him knows that eventually a Dispel Magic
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/dispelMagic.html#dispel-magic
will remove it, but enjoys knowing the inconvenience to this "impetuous pest" of a magic user will make up for putting up with his antics at **where ever the wizard learned his craft"
isn't there a Damphir feat that does that, or does it only work on animal companions.
You could fold it into the Improved Familiar feat. Take skeleton template on a regular familiar instead of a Imp.
Turtle
Tiny animal
Init –2; Senses low-light vision
DEFENSE
AC 16, touch 10, flat-footed 16 (–2 Dex, +6 natural, +2 size)
hp 3 (1d8–1)
Fort +1, Ref +0, Will +1
OFFENSE
Speed 5 ft., swim 20 ft.
Melee bite –2 (1d3–4)
Space 2-1/2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
STATISTICS
Str 3, Dex 6, Con 8, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 3
Base Atk +0; CMB –4; CMD 2 (6 vs. trip)
Feats Skill Focus (Perception)
Skills Perception +4, Swim +10
Shell Retreat (Ex)
A turtle can retreat within its shell as a swift action, gaining a +2 enhancement bonus to its existing natural armor. While in its shell, a turtle cannot take any action except to end the retreat. The turtle can end its retreat with a free action on its turn.
Vs
Skeleton Turtle
Tiny undead
Init +3; Senses low-light vision
DEFENSE
AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 11 (–1 Dex, +0 natural, +2 size)
hp 4 (1d8)
Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +2
OFFENSE
Speed 5 ft., swim 20 ft.
Melee bite –4 (1d3–4)
Space 2-1/2 ft.; Reach 0 ft.
STATISTICS
Str 3, Dex 8, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB –4; CMD 2 (6 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Initiative
Defensive Abilities: A skeleton loses the base creature's defensive abilities and gains DR 5/bludgeoning and immunity to cold. It also gains all of the standard immunities and traits possessed by undead creatures.
Okay guys do you really think the lower is worth a feat versus every other improved familiar?
you've convinced me, undead should be fine if he has a reason to have it. but when it talks with kind does it talk to turtles or skeletons?
There are two improved familiars that are undead, so I'd say just let them have it if they have improved familiar. In fact, I'm kinda wondering why it isn't already an option.
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Hmm, the turtle does look kinda crippled. Might say Improved lets it act as Beheaded(but with turtle flavor). Overall though, I still see no reason why simply saying your turtle is skeletal for flavor is a problem. Maybe give it negative energy affinity, since that doesn't really affect gameplay much(unless you regularly use your familiar in combat).