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Hello All-
I recently made a new character with a race/class I've never played before (Human Ninja). I plan on only using him at conventions. Considering you're most likely playing with a table of strangers, how can I not tell them what I'm actually playing without being annoying?
What I mean is don't say my class for role playing sake. Like, tell them something like, "I'm a fixer, I fix all kinds of things...". But most tables you want to know the group dynamic, who's playing what and all. I'd like to get in character right away and make my guy a kind of a mystery to everyone else.
If this is a stupid question, don't be too harsh. I was just looking for some creative direction.
Thanks in advance.
It depends on the level to which you don't want to describe the class. From an OOC perspective, it's not unreasonable to say what class combo you are. IC, you can just as easily describe the appearance of the character. If they can't pick it up IC from there, it's typically not your fault.
Obviously, the GM will need to actually know what class your character is.
Your characters probably doesn't go around saying he is a ninja (and quite likely doesn't even think of himself as a ninja).
As a player, talking to other players though who want to be able to understand and coordinate tactics, just tell them. When you are talking as a player to the other players, try role-playing being a good team member and someone who trusts the other players to understand the difference between in character and out of character discussion.
There's a potentially very contentious debate (one that's been had a lot in other threads) about what it actually means, in world, to be a given class. It my opinion, it doesn't mean very much, if anything. In other words, two people could train at the same monastery, but because of their individual personalities and approach to the training one of them might come away from that training as a warpriest and the other as a multiclass fighter/cleric.
Or whatever. Don't get hung up on the specific example; the point is that the name of a class is incidental and doesn't mean anything. It's an arbitrary title that was given to a collection of stats by the designers as a way of signalling to the reader what they could likely expect from choosing that package. What you actually make of that stat package is up to you entirely. Even in organized play, "reskinning" is perfectly acceptable in this regard.
In other words, when I hear your class name I make no assumptions about the aesthetic of your character or about what he/she can actually do. I am in the minority on this, but it's a sizable minority.
As far as, like, an etiquette question, I would say you have to approach it on a case by case basis. Some people will get frustrated with your out of game refusal to tell them your class, and other people will be totally cool with it. I think most people will be cool with it. I would just be totally upfront about your intentions. Like, "I like this character to be kind of mysterious, so I usually don't tell what I'm playing OOC, and just let it emerge in-game. Is that cool with you guys? He looks like this: [describe character]." And then of course they can always ask your character IC what he is or does, and he can answer however he would answer that.
I, at least, would not think you're being annoying, but some people might, especially if they were trying to figure out what to play (if they had multiple characters). A lot of people don't like to repeat roles at a table, and not without reason. So it might be wise to only play that guy at a table without any other characters who have similar abilities.
I think you'll have to take it on a table by table basis. When asked, try just smiling and saying "I'd rather not say yet." If that clearly doesn't go well, shrug it off and share. Some players might enjoy the added element of mystery; I know I would.
In AD&D, I did this once with a male drow magic-user. I had the party thinking he was an elven druid/fighter/magic-user/illusionist/thief/monk. But that was an established weekly group that was willing to give me some slack to play it out.
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I had a wayang ninja that I did not tell the players what he was. He was always very polite and helpful. When asked what class he was...he just would say "I am Niisan Kaiju, your most humble servant". Only if the group asked "what could he do", I would mention that I was a decent diplomat, a good person to go forward and check to make sure the path is safe, and if needed I could use the wakizashi's on his back.
Come up with something like that I think would be the best way. That way you are telling the party what you can do, but not what class you are. Usually I got pegged for a rogue or ranger, but it still worked :-)
To other players, just describe what your character does without referencing the meta-game mechanics. "I'm really sneaky and I do well in flanking positions." Could be rogue, ninja, slayer, etc. (Actually, this is usually a better way to describe your character, because with all the archetypes, "I'm a rogue" isn't a helpful description anymore.)
The GM will need to know, but you can write it down and ask him not to say.
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Your characters probably doesn't go around saying he is a ninja (and quite likely doesn't even think of himself as a ninja).
As a player, talking to other players though who want to be able to understand and coordinate tactics, just tell them. When you are talking as a player to the other players, try role-playing being a good team member and someone who trusts the other players to understand the difference between in character and out of character discussion.
Right. IC, your PC would likely not say "I am a Ninja!".
OOC, there's not reason to not be out in the open. Otherwise the players are going to spot the fact you're being coy and assume you're either a "Richard" or going to pull some "stuff". There is no reason at all to lie to your fellow PLAYERS.
I like secrets between PCs, but I don't like secrets between players.
I like the dramatic irony that kind of divide can bring. Also from experience when a player keeps a secret it generally just means all that backstory and motivation never makes it to the game or understood by anyone else at the table. I generally find such secret characters to be flatter than ones I know about as a player or GM (even if my PCs or NPCs know nothing about them).
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As DrDeth says, there's a difference between in character and out of character here. Of course it's reasonable to be cagey in character, but out of character is entirely different.
"Hi I'm playing a cleric of Irori with a dip into paladin mostly for character reasons, what are you playing?"
"I sneak from shadow to shadow, always unseen, always watching."
"... So, a rogue?"
"I am whirling death incarnate."
"... Er, slayer?"
"My steel is guided by-"
"-You know what dude, I have no idea what class you are in the game, but out of the game, you're kind of a dick."
My -exact- thoughts while reading OP's post.
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As DrDeth says, there's a difference between in character and out of character here. Of course it's reasonable to be cagey in character, but out of character is entirely different.
"Hi I'm playing a cleric of Irori with a dip into paladin mostly for character reasons, what are you playing?"
"I sneak from shadow to shadow, always unseen, always watching."
"... So, a rogue?"
"I am whirling death incarnate."
"... Er, slayer?"
"My steel is guided by-"
"-You know what dude, I have no idea what class you are in the game, but out of the game, you're kind of a dick."
Yeah - if someone did that - I'd just glance at their character sheet when they weren't looking, and then tell the rest of the table.
The only thing I've ever done close to this is play a Kitsune (back when you needed a Boon to do so) who always went around in her human-like form. I usually gave the GM a note while setting up offering to produce the Boon but saying that the character attempts to pass as human at all times. OOC I'd happily tell you that the character was a bard with the flag-bearer archetype. Nobody ever questioned her race.
The only time it ever came up is when in one module the character was grappled and held underwater. While underwater, she transformed to gain the bite attack to use in the grapple. Once released, she spent an extra round underwater to transform back to human before surfacing.
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We're playing in Emerald Spire. I am a Maestro Sorcerer. I carry a lute-like instrument, and my character was opera-trained at the Kintargo Opera House. When I introduced myself as an opera singer, everyone in the party said, "Oh... a bard."
I don't even have to lie. They shortly figured out that I do way more spells than a bard, but it amuses them to still call me the party bard.
Hmm
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The Iomedae Crack Squad of Righteousness roll into the tavern.
They include a Paladin, a Cleric, a Warpriest, an Inquisitor, a Cavalier and a particularly religious Oracle.
OOC each player would genuinely find it helpful if not downright confusing for everyone to announce what they are.
In game though? Who could really tell the difference? Although I feel a bit sorry for the poor commoners in that tavern. Imagine having to talk to this bunch of pompous, violent clowns?
Don't you feel sorry for any commoner in a tavern with the average pompous, violent clowns in any given "adventuring" group?
Truly, murderhobos come in all shapes and sizes. None of them end well for commoners.
Go with Batman.You should always be yourself.
Unless you can be Batman.
If you can - always be Batman.
Why would I want to do that to my parents?!
Don't you feel sorry for any commoner in a tavern with the average pompous, violent clowns in any given "adventuring" group?
Well, I'd rather not play with players who run "pompous, violent clowns" or murderhoboes, and fortunately I have not had to do so in the last couple of decades.
I didn't know that the warrior-mage with the carapace body in our group was a synthesist until around 10th level. Just play the character and you'll do fine.
Don't you feel sorry for any commoner in a tavern with the average pompous, violent clowns in any given "adventuring" group?Truly, murderhobos come in all shapes and sizes. None of them end well for commoners.
Don't be silly. Commoners have little to fear other than collateral damage. After all, they're rarely worth much XP and tend to have crappy treasure.
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I plan on doing something like this with my new warlock, because he kinda has no idea what his powers are and the only thing he really knows is that it is linked to this bunny, leading him to curse people out when they ask him what he can do.
he only signed up to explore! No one told him that he would be in near death conditions while doing so! So hes a cranky a$+~##+*. But also one who can shoot water.
Most of the time when asked what his powers are, the answer is I DON'T HAVE A DAMN CLUE! Why are you asking ME? Ask this damn rabbit I am stuck with! My god!
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I keep thinking through this one, and...
My answer is the same as some others above-- IC you can explain it however you want (IC most of my characters would not think of themselves in class-label terms-- I fully get the IC point that your character isn't going to call himself-- or think of himself as-- a ninja, or whatever other class/archetype/level combo you're using).
OoC-- just say it and get it over with. What class/archetype(s)/specialties; maybe warn folks if your character does not do what is normally expected from that class-type. But, ESPECIALLY if you're planning on doing this character at conventions, one-off games, and PFS sessions-- you will be just f***ing annoying and someone I don't want to game with if you're being mysterious OUT OF CHARACTER and thereby depriving your fellow players of very useful/necessary information for how your character is going to fit into the party and/or contribute to the group story.
In convention & PFS type games, your fellow players DO need to know that stuff-- and the majority of folks I know and game with can handle keeping player knowledge separate from character knowledge. It's collective storytelling-- it's not you, the player, getting to play secret squirrel private games to the detriment of everyone else at the table-- which is effectively what you'll be doing if those class secrets you're keeping from the other players cause problems for the rest of the group-- and they usually will.
Speaking fairly-- there's actually more room and more of a place for hidden class selections and keeping secrets in ongoing "home" campaigns, though you should give your fellow players some idea of what role(s) you will be filling. In long-running campaigns, the longer/slower/delayed revelation of secrets and discovering what your comrades are really capable of over time serves more of a purpose, is more tuned in to character development and interaction that other people at the table can enjoy and appreciate, and it may boost other people's ultimate enjoyment of the game.
However, IMO-- even then, I'd generally prefer that players appreciate the difference between "in character" and "out of character", and not work so hard at concealing information from the other PLAYERS-- characters concealing info in game does not require keeping players in the dark about everything.
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I find for a lot of my builds, listing classes and levels gives other players the wrong impressions of what I do, or just confuses them. So I tend to give my ooc introduction as a role based description.
When I tell someone I'm a ranger/gunslinger/monk/horizon walker, they go uh, so what do you do? So instead I say I'm a pirate, I carry a blunderbuss and hit things with a big sword. And that's a much more useful description for most players.
As others have said, in character, say whatever you want. Describe your capabilities if its an issue, IE I am a scout, good in a flank, whatever. But trying to hide it out of character is going to be an issue at most tables.
You would have to be super cagey not to give anything away, when say, you use a ki point to vanish. For the most part, even if people describe things flavorfully, they still need to mention the game mechanics involved so the dm can understand whats going on. If you just say 'I vanish', and not mention anything else, I am pretty sure people would get annoyed pretty fast, and as a DM I'd insist on your telling me what you actually did (since it can matter if say you dimension doored out of sight, vs went invisible).
In terms of mentioning classes in game terms, I think it depends. Some of them make sense some dont. I generally use terms like witch, shaman, sage etc interchangably, but some like wizard vs sorceror might very well be part of an in world dynamic (those who study magic vs those with inborn power). Its also entirely possible for various people to refer to themselves by class names based on the flavor of the class without being that class. An example from order of the stick comes to mind when a character who was a monk/paladin refered to herself as a samurai, as opposed to having the samurai class. A 'ninja' might very well be an investigator, monk, or even straight rogue from an eastern flavored place. If they are in a ninja clan, they are a ninja.
Obviously therese overlap since paizo tries to use descriptive names for their classes, but its certainly not universal.
my Sylph Slayer would tell people "i'm a magician, i do card tricks for tips on the streets" which is true to the character because that is what she did. the fact she was highly skilled with knives, was an extension of being a street magician. few people knew she was a playtest slayer and thought was a rogue.
I'd just tell the others what I'm playing. Unless I'm in a Vampire game, I've generally got no use for ooc secrets.
Now how I introduce myself in-character.... Well, that depends upon the character I'm playing & the setting/game.
Don't you feel sorry for any commoner in a tavern with the average pompous, violent clowns in any given "adventuring" group?Sal's used to be a nice quiet tavern until the murderhobos showed up.
Dear Mr. Hanna,
Please be mindful of your insinuations, you wouldn't want to be caught slandering the illustrious reputation of the Golarion Union of Murderhoboes for the Betterment of Others. I think an apology might be owed here, or should I introduce you to my dear friend, Louis?
Sincerely yours,
~Jaspar "Shank Him Louis" Kahrdboordebachs~
your local GUMBO representative
. . . OOC, there's not reason to not be out in the open. Otherwise the players are going to spot the fact you're being coy and assume you're either a "Richard" or going to pull some "stuff". There is no reason at all to lie to your fellow PLAYERS.
That's great in theory, and I wish it were true, but I've had at least one person in almost every game I've played that cannot separate in character knowledge and out of character knowledge. So they metagame and ruin the fun.
I played a changeling rogue in a 3.5 game. Once the players knew, one of the characters wouldn't leave my character alone, looking for every excuse he could for his character to know everything the player did.
I brought a friend to a 3.5 game and the DM gave her a prebuild bruiser type. Another player's character kept trying to grill her character as to what she could do when it was this guest's first time to play the game. She did not know everything her character could do but he still kept pushing.
Same thing with a rules lawyer in another group who wouldn't let it slide that the player knew that my character wasn't the vampire clan the character stated (and successfully used manipulation + subterfuge to convince others) in a VtM game. He was ashamed of his clan, but the player wanted to out him EVEN THOUGH HIS CHARACTER DID NOT KNOW...
And so on... I've had a lot of this. I'm cool if somebody wants to play a character and keep a little back. Sometimes its fun to be surprised as a player.
For those who have answered that it's essential the other players know the class so that they know what role is covered, couldn't this info be conveyed without the specific class name? Is "fighter" really better than "I stand face to face with monsters and battle them with only my trusty blade"? Do you need to hear the word "ninja", or wouldn't "I move quietly in shadows and strike best from surprise" convey role as effectively?
I guess the short version is: Isn't role separate from class?
If so, then disclosing class is unnecessary to determine role.