So, this could be considered a game, more than anything else.
To that end, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to optimize this guy within the constraints of the character as he currently exists. Yes, I'm aware that I more or less made him a backwards bloodrager. I don't care, and it was purposeful.
If your purpose here is to tell me, "You built him wrong." please know that I am aware already, was aware when I was doing it, and really don't care. So, please do us all a favor, and don't post that - it will save all sorts of time and tempers all-round.
(Also, if you notice someone doing exactly this thing, please flag them and don't respond, even to tell them - I'd prefer to just keep this on topic as much as possible. Thank you!)
I do not claim that I will follow the advice given in this thread.
Instead, this is an intellectual thought-exercise that could double as advice that I follow - hence placing it in the Advice section.
The Rules:
- no retraining
- multi-classing is not impossible, but is discouraged
- presume you have, at most, three more level to grow him, but fewer is better
- general advice, such as "this weapon, because <X>" or "this armor, and here's why..." are just as acceptable in terms of optimization
- preferably building off of what he already has instead of abandoning it
- preferably something that allows him to be relatively humble in terms of design or style (peasant-ish weaponry, etc)
The Goal:
- make him as great and effective as possible within the constraints of what he already is and has
- gather some interesting and good advice from the forums revolving around optimizing a purposefully anti-optimized character.
The Optional:
- if you really care to, you may go through and read the gameplay thread which he is a part of
Thank you all for you participation, and God bless you!
EDIT: A bit more information
- he's effectively fallen into a defacto leadership position of the (very large) group that he is part of
- we are facing fiends; so far, we've fought 4 imps and, between the fourteen of us, killed 3 of them (the fourth escaped); "fiend" is a generic catch-all for "evil outsider" - hence, effects that apply to only devils in Core also apply to demons
- there is detective/investigation, combat, and social interaction implied
"I look forward to hearing from you all."
Thanks!
I was starting to wonder if I'd broken the Advice forum, or found something even they couldn't help with!
That's a really useful set of ideas. It does take until ninth level to fully come online, but that's a really nifty idea nonetheless.
Really cool idea! I'll definitely have to remember tanglefoot bags. Axes are definitely interesting. I've not heard of sliding axe throw before, but that's really cool.
Thank you, again! :D
Heh. Nice.
I must admit, I am a little confused as to what you are looking for in terms of optimization.
You have a 14 str when raging, which is about the minimum you would ever want. I have a life oracle in PFS who fights with a longspear at that strength and he doesn't have the full BAB and destined strike to back it up and he does fine. Though fighting is not all he does.
Recommend battle cry from the ACG as your level 5 feat. Alternatively you would have a really good ranged touch with your dex and full BAB, esp if you took point blank shot and precise shot and would go well with your throw anything feat. Also consider nets, even with non proficiency, instead of tanglefoot bags, unless you have lots of spare gold.
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droppin' down for easy reading
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I'm looking for a few things:
1) Optimization within the scope of the character
2) Advice on how to make this character function in general, as well as in specific
- 2a) in general: things that maximize his capabilities in and out of combat based off of the general recommendations modified by his level and ability scores; race, class, alignment, etc.
- 2b) in specific: things tailored to his specific build so-far (i.e. "throw anything" and decent DEX, moderate INT, high CHA), especially in regards to the 14-person game he's currently a part of
You state STR 14 is "the minimum you would ever want", and I'm curious why: are you saying for the purpose of damage compared to hit points and how it scales with base attack bonus over levels, or are you just saying "you can't get the most optimal feats without STR 14" or "you can't get the best benefit of two-handing without STR 14" - both of which are very different things from each other, and not strictly necessary for finding a useful niche for a character - even a melee character - in general to fulfill.
Anyway, I hadn't heard of battle cry before - that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, though: it's pretty excellent for this kind of character in the group environment he's a part of. Good find.
Thanks!
1) Optimization within the scope of the character
What does this mean to you. I read your character sheet but I don't know what YOU want from it.
You are already fine out of combat, social face skills are decent. In terms of optimization stop putting points in multiple professions... but I am guessing you know this and don't need it told to you.
In terms of 14 str it's all of the above that you mentioned. Though having a natural 14 is better due being able to get power attack. Still you can get by with full bab and a greatsword or whatever, and when you want to deal more damage cast a damaging spell instead of attacking with a weapon. You could even pick up Power Attack still: +2 belt, put your 4th level stat into str, pick up PA at 7.
Though that is only if you want to melee, otherwise pick up ranged feats as mentioned in my last post.
Your character is 'bad' but salvageable if you determine what you want him to do. Just no more skill feats for awhile if you want to contribute in combat in a more meaningful way.
It's not legal. If you want rage powers as a bloodrager then see the Primalist archetype.
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I really dont understand your concept of optimization
Things i noticed
Your melee is weak
You have a little bit too much charisma for a 4th level caster
Throw anything wont do you much good since your dexterity is also low
Maybe you should tell us what you want to do:
Optimize for damage?
Optimize for spells?
Optimize for skills?
For your build it looks like you want to make a support build, it looks like a class like bard or even skald (if you like rage) could get much more from those scores
I really dont understand your concept of optimization
Clearly.
And that's both common and expected.
Here's what I'm asking for:
- there's this guy (I linked him up top)
- this is what he is (you can see that in the link)
- make that work well in-game (for whatever you consider "working well")
There are several very interesting ideas presented, so far.
Power Attack with a greatsword, for example is very generic/standard "here's how to optimize melee" that everyone receives. My character doesn't really qualify for that.
So...
... given a 10 STR, high charisma, highly skilled character
... in a melee-focused class with ranged options
... what will work out well in a game?
The answer "nothing" doesn't really turn anything back.
I'm looking for ideas, and, slowly, am eking out a few.
It's interesting that a bloodrager could give bonuses like a bard via feat. I like the spirit rage power idea - I'll have to ask my GM, even though it's not RAW, as it works really well with his background idea and social essence.
As a design, as I've mentioned,
- make him as great and effective as possible within the constraints of what he already is and has
- gather some interesting and good advice from the forums revolving around optimizing a purposefully anti-optimized character.The Optional:
- if you really care to, you may go through and read the gameplay thread which he is a part ofThank you all for you participation, and God bless you!
EDIT: A bit more information
- he's effectively fallen into a defacto leadership position of the (very large) group that he is part of
- we are facing fiends; so far, we've fought 4 imps and, between the fourteen of us, killed 3 of them (the fourth escaped); "fiend" is a generic catch-all for "evil outsider" - hence, effects that apply to only devils in Core also apply to demons
- there is detective/investigation, combat, and social interaction implied
Also, worth noting, reference the skills, that he gains two bonus skills beyond the base that he would otherwise receive that must go into craft, perform, or profession. Thus, two performs.
(Craft was optional, but it makes sense for his background.)
So: carry on! :)
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Well considering you have a really high Charisma thing i would recomend
For skills:
Multiclass Bard 1 and get Pageant of the Peacock
This will net you all knowlege skill for free as long as you train bluff
Plus multiclassing bard will get you inspire courage and many class skills which could be really useful like use magic device
For Combat:
Noble Scion (feat) gets you charisma to initiative, altought you had to take it at level one, maybe you can convice your dm to let you take it
Arcane Strike (Combat) get you hefty damage according to you caster level which even if you multiclass you can get to work
Muticlassing oracle can get you Charisma to AC and Reflex plus some more benefits like spells or animal companion
Multiclassing paladin will get you a lot of healing and if you dip 2 levels you could get charisma to all saves.
An odd case, multiclassing Gunslinger mysterious stranger will get you charisma to damage for limited turns (uses grit). Guns are nice since you wouldnt need to worry that much about hitting since you would target touch
Obviously you want to take leadership, its a really good feat for high charisma character, personally i dont like but it its obligatory to list it
Thank you, Elemental! Some really good ideas. Several are unlikely to work (chaotic good negates paladin, I'm unlikely to class high enough to ever acquire a second level spell - in any class - or gain access to leadership, and there is no in-character justification for gunslinger), but the basic ideas are both solid and interesting, and definitely bear looking into.
All that said, if we ever go further in this game, I'll definitely look into them! :D
(Related tangent: this somewhat reminds me of Red Mage's challenge to twink out 3E bards. It's interesting to see, but also it's interesting to figure out why things work or don't.)