Hey new to paizo forums and trying to come up with a grenadier musket wielding half-elf alchemist gunslinger who isn't too MAD, has decent damage/Utility and is legal for society play. I have seen a couple forum posts concerning this class combination but nothing note worthy any advice is welcome
I dunno; I'd rather take a Vivisectionist / Inspired Blade combo.
You get Sneak damage, and your Panache is determined by both INT and CHA (which helps bridge the gap between the INT-based Alchemist and the CHA-based Swashbuckler).
If you go up to lv11 Inspired Blade, you get Inspired Strike, which adds bonus damage equal to your INT in addition to your DEX as per usual.
If you go up to lv9 Vivisectionist, you'll have both Anthropomorphic Animal and Awaken, which will let you make Rocket Racoon, and I cannot see a reason NOT to do that.
I forgot that Viv isn't legal - sorry.
I guess I should elaborate a little bit more on why I say that Swashbuckler is a better choice, however.
A Gunslinger, while powerful, presents some issues that a Swashbuckler can get around.
First off, firing a gun in melee is like using any Ranged weapon in melee - it provokes AoOs.
You do get around that by using an Axe Musket; the problem THERE, however, is that you now have 4 stats that you need to have be strong:
STR to swing the Axe portion of your weapon
DEX to fire the Gun portion of your weapon
WIS to get good Grit
INT to have strong spells.
None of these four overlap, as well.
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Secondly, you lose Brew Potion. I dunno about everyone else, but I love that feat, and don't ever want to lose it if I'm an Alchemist.
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Thirdly, you will be SLOOOOOOOW.
A Musket/Musket-Axe is a two-handed firearm. That means that reloading it is a full-round action. If you take Rapid Reload, you turn that into a Standard Action, but you've burned a Feat in order to do so. If you use Alchemical ammo (paper), you can downgrade this further to a Move Action, but then you're done.
Alchemical Weapon takes a Move Action and only lasts until you make a single attack.
You will shoot (standard action); You will reload as a Move Action if you have both Rapid Reload and Paper cartridges (move action). Next round, you can use Alchemical Weapon (move action), and shoot (standard action).
Alternatively: You reposition yourself (move action); you fire (standard action). Next round, you reload with Rapid Reload using Paper cartridges (move action), and use Alchemical Weapon (move action).
Either way, you will never be able to Shoot, Reload, and use Alchemical Weapon all with a two-handed firearm - at least not before lv7 (6 Alchemist, 1 Gunslinger). You're better off with a Double-Barrel Pistol before lv7.
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Finally, you're focusing on both Bombs and guns. Since rocket launchers are just right-out, that means that you'll be a walking armory in some ways, but in other ways have no real focus.
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If you go with a Swashbuckler/Alchemist route, especially an Inspired Blade, you get:
First, only 3 necessary Stats:
DEX for your Rapier + extra damage based on DEX for a Swashbuckler
INT for your Extracts AND your Panache
CHA for your Panache
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Secondly, you receive Weapon Finesse as a free feat - which means you have more leeway with any extra feats you want to take
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Thirdly, you are quick & nimble. Aside from the ludicrous Acrobatics checks you'll be able to make by focusing on DEX, you can attack every turn without problems. If you go Grenadier, you can use Alchemical Weapon and Attack every single turn.
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Finally, you're focusing much more greatly on one single weapon, which means that Weapon Focus becomes a greater asset and thus opens the door to many more feats for which it is a prerequisite.
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Thank you for all the feedback now there is a spell called reloading hands.
Is there anyway to get this as a alchemist and if so would this allow me two attacks a round instead?
This might make up a bit for the attacks being slow as for the swashbuckler argument you may be right about it being more optimized but the reason for me being gunslinger/alchemist is purely flavor based.
But I do appreciate the suggestion I might roll up a swashbuckler and keep him in case the gunslinger flops.
Sorry for the double-post, but a thought does come to mind.
You COULD take Musketeer. You gain Rapid Reload (Musket) as a bonus feat, and Weapon Finesse as an effective bonus feat (you get it in all but name, and count as having it for prereqs).
You then go from focusing on DEX, INT, and WIS with an Alcemist/Gunslinger build, to focusing on DEX, INT, and CHA, however. So no real net-gain of the number of Stats that are relevant.
However, you will be even more of a walking armory than an Alchemist/Gunslinger, and if you need, you are a much better melee combatant.
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As for the "two attacks" there is a Double-Barrel Musket. But all that does is delay the issue.
You use Alchemical Weapon, and fire; next round, do the same; the third round, you must spend 2 move actions to reload both barrels, otherwise you just go to the original issue I mentioned.
Reloading Hands is fantastic; but there's no guarantee you'll always have access to it, unless you purchase a Wand.
Plus, since it only lasts for 1rd/CL, and you can assume that the Wand is of min CL, you'll have to recast Hands every 4th Round (you cast it, get 3 rounds of free ammo, and then you have to recast it on Round 4). If you go with a Double Barrel Musket, you cast Hands on round 1; you fire on round 2 and the Hands reload; you fire on round 3 and the hands reload; you fire on round 4 and the hands reload; you fire on round 5 but are out of that barrel; you fire on round 6 and your gun is empty; you cast Hands on round 7 and the hands reload, plus you reload as a Move Action (Rapid Reload + Paper Cartridge)
Not too terrible, but out of 7 rounds of combat you've spent over a quarter of the time just reloading. However - adding a bit more credence to my Musketeer suggestion - if you take Musketeer, you get Rapid Reload (Musket) as a Bonus Feat, so you get all the glory of the above without the bad taste of needing to use up a Feat just to do so.
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and now I realize that I have just designed Porthos from BBC's The Musketeers... (bomb-proficient, gun-wielding, swashbuckler)
I don't know about legal, but Musket Master gets a deed at 3rd level that lets them reload two-handed firearms as though they were one-handed ones, if they have at least 1 grit point.
Remember that explosive Missile is for one-handed firearms only. My PFS grenadier uses a double-barreled pistol (and hardly ever uses the other barrel).
What about musket master I heard they can get it down to free loading a musket is this legal and how much a dip would it be?
To do that, you need to go up to lv3 in Musket Master, losing Utility Shot in the process (the ability makes two-handed Firearms count as One-Handed for the purposes of reloading, so Full Round >>> Standard (Fast Musket); Standard >>> Move (Rapid Reload); Move >>> Free (Paper Cartridge)).
But, that means that you'll be losing out on Alchemist progression if you go that far in.
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If you want to splash just 1 level of Gun/Swash (which is a bit more optimal, since it gives you great perks without delaying your Alchemist progression), here is a comparison:
Musketeer (Swashbuckler):
Proficiencies - ALL one-handed and two-handed firearms; ALL simple and martial weapons, plus bucklers and light armor.
Bonus Feats - Weapon Finesse, Rapid Reload, Gunsmithing
Deeds - Opportune Parry & Riposte (a personal favorite, and which RAW can be performed with a Ranged Weapon if you have Snap Shot - no ruling as of yet to say otherwise), Derring-Do, Quick Clear
vs
Musket Master (Gunslinger):
Proficiensies - ONLY two-handed firearms; ALL simple and martial weapons, plus light armor
Bonus Feats - Rapid Reload, Gunsmithing
Deeds - Steady Aim (Move Action to increase range by 10ft); Deadeye; Quick Clear
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They're very comparable at first glance; what it basically comes down to is this:
A Musketeer is an all-around more versatile fighter, because he gains proficiency with a much wider range of weapons, and lets him be a close-quarters fighter, a mid-range fighter, and distance fighter; he also has access to the feat, Sword and Pistol, because of these proficiencies (which isn't terribly relevant for your design, but nice to know it's an option)
A Musket Master is a much-more focused fighter; he only knows his musket, and he can't scuffle in melee without provoking attacks of opportunity, BUT, he's a deadly sniper - you gain a near-automatic +10ft. bonus to your Range Increment in which you can make a Ranged Touch, and for every 1 Grit you spend beyond that, you gain an additional 10ft.