Armor Training and Fly

[aceDiamond]

The Fly spell mentions that you gain a movement speed of 40' instead of 60' if you're wearing medium or heavy armor. A fighter's Armor Training class ability, as well as a dwarven racial trait I can't remember the name of, allows them to move in medium and heavy armor at normal move speed. Should casting Fly on a dwarf or fighter give them a 40' or 60' fly speed?

[LazarX]

None of those abilities address anything beyond ground movement. Not even swimming is covered.

[Lord Vukodlak]

LazarX wrote:

None of those abilities address anything beyond ground movement. Not even swimming is covered.

I partially disagree, while the dwarf's ability clearly only refers to his land speed. The fighter's armor training simply says "normal speed." So it should effect all forms of movement, you could make the case that it only effect a creature's natural fly/swim or climb speeds and not spells but to say it only effects land speed is a bit of a stretch.

[Nicos]

LazarX wrote:

None of those abilities address anything beyond ground movement. Not even swimming is covered.

In what part of armor training is this?

[SlimGauge]

The fly speed granted by the fly spell is not a fighter's "normal speed". Unless perhaps he's a special race that does have a normal fly speed.

[Weirdo]

I don't think that the fact the fly speed comes from a spell means it isn't "normal" since the Fly skill explicitly applies when flying using the Fly spell, and it references normal speed:

Fly wrote:

Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed. It can also turn up to 45 degrees by sacrificing 5 feet of movement, can rise at half speed at an angle of 45 degrees, and can descend at any angle at normal speed.

There is as far as I can tell no formal definition of "normal speed". It's often used to refer to "land speed," for example:

Climb wrote:

With a successful Climb check, you can advance up, down, or across a slope, wall, or other steep incline (or even across a ceiling, provided it has handholds) at one-quarter your normal speed.

However, Armour Training doesn't necessarily follow this rule of thumb, since "normal speed" in this way clearly includes penalty for armour/encumbrance, as in the following from Survival:

Survival wrote:

You move at half your normal speed while following tracks (or at your normal speed with a –5 penalty on the check, or at up to twice your normal speed with a –20 penalty on the check)

It doesn't make sense for taking a -5 survival penalty to allow you to use your speed before it's reduced for armour. However, in the case of Armor Training it doesn't make sense to say that "normal speed" is base land speed + armor adjustment since the whole point of Armor Training is to mitigate that adjustment. These therefore are different usages.

I conclude that "normal speed" in Armor Training is intended to mean "the speed you would move at if you were not wearing armour," as that is the most obvious interpretation of the word "normal" in this context.

EDIT: Slow but Steady's wording "their speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance" also seems like it refers to all speeds since it doesn't explicitly restrict to land speed - counter-intuitive as it is that dwarves would be good at flying.