RD: Yes. That is the logical way of looking at it. I don't mind the thread necro either. But I can summarize this for you:
There isn't a lot of useful things you can do with Touch Injection. The most useful things are Polypurpose Panacea and Skinsend and as Claxon pointed out they are dubious at best. These were definitely never intended to be allowed together. Any sane DM would probably disallow it altogether or at least require a save at best.
An Alchemist could make Touch Injection Infusions and give all party members the power to heal with a touch. It'll do wonders for the whole party's action economy.
If using Skinsend, Panacea, and other like spells with Touch Injection wasn't intended, I have to ask exactly what was intended? It specifies that it can be used with (infused) extracts, but there don't seem to be any on the Alchemist list that would be worth it.
Not every spell is great. How often do you use detect poison?
As an aside, I don't see how the move+standard to draw and drink the Touch Injection infusion, and then another move+standard for the Cure X potion, then another standard to touch the intended recipient, comes out to doing wonders for the party's action economy. In fact, in the case of a downed party member, it's significantly worse than just pouring the Cure X down their gullet directly.
As an aside, I don't see how the move+standard to draw and drink the Touch Injection infusion, and then another move+standard for the Cure X potion, then another standard to touch the intended recipient, comes out to doing wonders for the party's action economy. In fact, in the case of a downed party member, it's significantly worse than just pouring the Cure X down their gullet directly.
Because you cast touch injection in advance and store the potion in the sac before combat starts.
These were definitely never intended to be allowed together.
How "definite"? By your own admission, Touch Injection isn't a useful spell otherwise. I generally assume that the designers want abilities they offer to be useful.
These were definitely never intended to be allowed together.How "definite"? By your own admission, Touch Injection isn't a useful spell otherwise. I generally assume that the designers want abilities they offer to be useful.
Prone Shooter
Prone ShooterThese were definitely never intended to be allowed together.How "definite"? By your own admission, Touch Injection isn't a useful spell otherwise. I generally assume that the designers want abilities they offer to be useful.
That sort of proves my point; they admit they messed that one up in the because they wanted it to do something and it didn't.
That sort of proves my point; they admit they messed that one up in the because they wanted it to do something and it didn't.Prone ShooterThese were definitely never intended to be allowed together.How "definite"? By your own admission, Touch Injection isn't a useful spell otherwise. I generally assume that the designers want abilities they offer to be useful.
Maybe no one has bothered to point out that Touch Injection isn't very good unless you abuse it with two spells that were never intended to be cast on anyone else, through the use of a rather specific class ability.
It's not the first case where 3 rules interact to rather catastrophic ends. You can't tell me you believe that a no save sleep effect or a no save lose half your hp effect aren't too powerful.
Since this thread is a year old, I'd say they should be aware of the issue by now. They just don't have an easy solution.
So you think they intended to have Skinsend be a no save kill move? Two second level spells. You would allow this as a GM?
Oh, I already have a solution in my games. It isn't allowed. But then none of my players have even approached the topic as I don't think they want to play in a game where you win any encounter with a living opponent with 2 spells like that.
There are many more spells usable with touch injection. But those, too are personal spells.
Fire sneeze, for example. For as long as the spell lasts the "caster" can use no other standard action than sneeze a cone of fire for 2d6 damage and a ridiculously low save to not be knocked prone.
At 10th level that's 6 rounds where the enemy caster can't cast his most dangerous spells. Except for the quickened ones.
And Ghostly disguise (personal, too) might be neat for some RP moments. "Look your shaman ins anymore, what's been guiding you this last time was his vengeful ghost. I'll reveal him to you with a touch."
Joesi: Thank you for defending me. It is good to know I was not the only annoyed at being blatantly ignored. ...even if the defense did come nearly a year later. ;) Thread necromancy, you know.
shroudb: Hm... thank you for some ideas. Sadly I'm no longer playing the character or I would be able to put them to use personally. Your post may be the most useful so far in this thread.
Once again neroing this thread to point out that skinsend is actually not that great because the target can dismiss it as a standard action that doesn't provoke an AoO. So you just traded and lost in action economy, and lost out on 2 extracts. In short, look for other stuff like Detonate (use a tumor familiar to deliver the spell instead of doing it yourself since they get improved evasion)
Depends on the initiative order. If you have allies who are going between your turn and the enemies, they can kill the 0 HP body. Then you are just fighting a skin with half the hit points and a strength score of 3. If you're fighting some kind of strength based boss, that is pretty dang good. Hell, if you outnumber said boss, giving up your turn to take away their own is still solid for letting your allies go nuts. (Albeit, expensive to do.)
It does seem kind of alarming in that context.