Slashing grace and sawtooth sabres

[Aikidoka]

From ACG:

Slashing Grace (Combat)
You can stab your enemies with your sword or another
slashing weapon.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus
with chosen weapon.
Benefit: Choose one kind of one-handed slashing
weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your
chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a
one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and
class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a
swashbuckler’s or a duelist’s precise strike) and you can
add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength
modifier to that weapon’s damage. The weapon must be
one appropriate for your size.

I'm wondering does this mean I can weapon finesse any one handed slashing weapon so long as I have weapon focus for it? Will I be able to go TWF crazy with sawtooth sabres?

The build I'm looking at is a fighter/shadowdancer for PFS. The plan is to swing two swords around as I hop about with my little ghost buddy.

[Umbranus]

As I understand it you only get dex to damage but not to hit. So no finesse. Seems to be for the swashbuckler who can finesse all one-handed piercing weapons.

[zapbib]

No, the feat only allow dex to damage on a subset of weapon that do not allow finesse.

Sawtooth sabre are one handed weapon, always. They are counted as light only for the purpose of two weapon fighting. They cannot therefore be finesse unless you get a level of swashbuckler or daring champion(cavalier archetype) AND the slashing grace feat.

Yes that mean if you go that way you will have weapon focus and proficiency for several level in a weapon you cannot really use. Yes it is hideously stupid and yes there is no way around it in pathfinder. I thoroughly encourage you to vocally blame the developer for this feat.

On the flip side, trading a level of fighter for a level of swashbuckler is not a too big loss. Especially since the shadowdancer abilities are charisma based.

[Aikidoka]

I hadn't looked at the Swashbuckler but it seems a better fit than fighter now since you essentially get doge and weapons finesse as bonus feats. That leaves mobility, combat reflexes, weapons focus and grace to take up the rest of my feats.

I must have had a brain fart earlier and been thinking light weapon throughout that post instead of one handed, despite writing that. Will probably go with kukris or gladii as the swashbucklers says "A swashbuckler may only thrust with a piercing melee weapon that is covered under the Weapon Finesse feat." So with either of the above weapons I'd be able to finesse and use dex for damage. I can keep strength lower and put the points into dex, cha and con.

I was planning on saving up some GM credit for this guy and only starting to use it at lvl 5. That way I can get the feel of it just before I start my way down to shadow dancing.

[Forty2]

I never read Swashbuckler's Finesse as every single One-Handed Piercing Weapon; I always figured it restricted things like the Spiked Chain/Whip.

Note the missing key word here::

At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with (Here's where "all," or "every," would go) light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma...

If what you're saying is true... that would be ridiculous. No reason not to be proficient with a Falcata now!

---

Personally, I would use a Dueling Sword over a sawtooth any day. Same stats, Finesse to attack, slightly cheaper.

[Umbranus]

Forty2 wrote:

I never read Swashbuckler's Finesse as every single One-Handed Piercing Weapon; I always figured it restricted things like the Spiked Chain/Whip.

** spoiler omitted **

If what you're saying is true... that would be ridiculous. No reason not to be proficient with a Falcata now!

---

Personally, I would use a Dueling Sword over a sawtooth any day. Same stats, Finesse to attack, slightly cheaper.

But worse for TWF because with two sawtooths the TWF penalties count as if you were using a light offhand.

[Alexander Augunas]

Forty2 wrote:

I never read Swashbuckler's Finesse as every single One-Handed Piercing Weapon; I always figured it restricted things like the Spiked Chain/Whip.

** spoiler omitted **

If what you're saying is true... that would be ridiculous. No reason not to be proficient with a Falcata now!

---

Personally, I would use a Dueling Sword over a sawtooth any day. Same stats, Finesse to attack, slightly cheaper.

Sorry to sound rude, but you're wrong. In the Swashbuckler Advanced Class Guide blog, the designers specifically tote all of the cool Weapon Finesse shenanigans that the swashbuckler can pull off because she can use Weapon Finesse with any one-handed piercing weapons. The Advanced Class Guide specifically talks about dwarven swashbucklers using Weapon Finesse with light and heavy picks, the latter of which would be impossible if Swashbuckler's Finesse didn't apply to all types of one-handed piercing weapons.

The reason not to use a falcata is that you need to take two feats (Weapon Focus and Slashing Grace) before you can even use Weapon Finesse with the falcata. If you want to spend the feats on it, though, you certainly can.

[HectorVivis]

Can you link it please ? Can't find it for now.

[Artanthos]

Level 1: Kensai: Exotic Weapon proficiency, Weapon Focus, Slashing Grace, Two Weapon Fighting
Level 2: Swashbuckler
Level 3: Fighter: Double Slice, Power Attack
Level 4: Fighter
Level 5: Fighter: Weapon Specialization, choose feat

You are dual wielding with dex to damage at 2nd level.

[Dark Netwerk]

You wouldn't be able to choose Slashing Grace at 1st level since you'd need Weapon Finesse (which you don't get until the 2nd level of the build with your Swashbuckler level). You could forget the swashbuckler and hit Fighter at 2nd to get either Two-Weapon Fighting or Slashing Grace, replacing the 1st level feat with Weapon Finesse.

Or just go human or half-elf fighter to get there at 3rd: EWP, WFc & WFn @ 1st and SG at 2nd and TWF @ 3rd.

Alternatively, take a bit longer (4th level) and go Swashbuckler: EWP, WFc @ 1st, SG @3rd, TWF @ 4th.

EDITED to clarify that I meant second level of the build rather thatn 2nd level swashbuckler.

[mechaPoet]

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Forty2 wrote:

I never read Swashbuckler's Finesse as every single One-Handed Piercing Weapon; I always figured it restricted things like the Spiked Chain/Whip.

** spoiler omitted **

If what you're saying is true... that would be ridiculous. No reason not to be proficient with a Falcata now!

---

Personally, I would use a Dueling Sword over a sawtooth any day. Same stats, Finesse to attack, slightly cheaper.

Sorry to sound rude, but you're wrong. In the Swashbuckler Advanced Class Guide blog, the designers specifically tote all of the cool Weapon Finesse shenanigans that the swashbuckler can pull off because she can use Weapon Finesse with any one-handed piercing weapons. The Advanced Class Guide specifically talks about dwarven swashbucklers using Weapon Finesse with light and heavy picks, the latter of which would be impossible if Swashbuckler's Finesse didn't apply to all types of one-handed piercing weapons.

The reason not to use a falcata is that you need to take two feats (Weapon Focus and Slashing Grace) before you can even use Weapon Finesse with the falcata. If you want to spend the feats on it, though, you certainly can.

It's true! This is the alternate favored class bonus for dwarven swashbucklers:

Swashbuckler: Add 1/4 to the swashbuckler’s effective
class level to determine the extra damage she deals because
of the precise strike deed when wielding a light pick or
a heavy pick. If the swashbuckler has the Slashing Grace
feat or another similar effect, she can treat the battleaxe or
handaxe as a one-handed piercing melee weapon, and she
gains this benefit when wielding the appropriate weapon
for the feat as well.

@ Dark Netwerk: Swashbucklers now get their Weapon Finesse equivalent at first level. I think that's been the case since the second iteration of the playtest.

[Dark Netwerk]

Ahh, I see I said 'second level Swashbuckler' but what I meant was the second level of the build which is the Swashbuckler level.

Edited my previous post.

[trollbill]

You need a level of Swashbuckler to be able to use Weapon Finesse with a sawtooth sabre.

[Forty2]

mechaPoet wrote:

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Forty2 wrote:

I never read Swashbuckler's Finesse as every single One-Handed Piercing Weapon; I always figured it restricted things like the Spiked Chain/Whip.

** spoiler omitted **

If what you're saying is true... that would be ridiculous. No reason not to be proficient with a Falcata now!

---

Personally, I would use a Dueling Sword over a sawtooth any day. Same stats, Finesse to attack, slightly cheaper.

Sorry to sound rude, but you're wrong. In the Swashbuckler Advanced Class Guide blog, the designers specifically tote all of the cool Weapon Finesse shenanigans that the swashbuckler can pull off because she can use Weapon Finesse with any one-handed piercing weapons. The Advanced Class Guide specifically talks about dwarven swashbucklers using Weapon Finesse with light and heavy picks, the latter of which would be impossible if Swashbuckler's Finesse didn't apply to all types of one-handed piercing weapons.

The reason not to use a falcata is that you need to take two feats (Weapon Focus and Slashing Grace) before you can even use Weapon Finesse with the falcata. If you want to spend the feats on it, though, you certainly can.

It's true! This is the alternate favored class bonus for dwarven swashbucklers:

Swashbuckler: Add 1/4 to the swashbuckler’s effective
class level to determine the extra damage she deals because
of the precise strike deed when wielding a light pick or
a heavy pick. If the swashbuckler has the Slashing Grace
feat or another similar effect, she can treat the battleaxe or
handaxe as a one-handed piercing melee weapon, and she
gains this benefit when wielding the appropriate weapon
for the feat as well.

...

...well then, Swashbucklers just a got a whole lot more appealing in my eyes. Thank you for pointing this out.

[Azten]

Not sure 4 extra points of damage is worth it though. Not compared to 20 extra hit or skill points.

[Flawed]

Artanthos wrote:

Level 1: Kensai: Exotic Weapon proficiency, Weapon Focus, Slashing Grace, Two Weapon Fighting
Level 2: Swashbuckler
Level 3: Fighter: Double Slice, Power Attack
Level 4: Fighter
Level 5: Fighter: Weapon Specialization, choose feat

You are dual wielding with dex to damage at 2nd level.

Not getting Slashing Grace at level 1 without Weapon Finesse. I think the earliest I see it being viable is level 3. Level 1 is a little rough with a low strength, level 2 your to hit goes up based on dex, and level 3 your damage catches up to your to hit.

Alternatively:

Level 1: Crusader Cleric of Achaekek: Weapon Focus(Bonus), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Favored weapon of Achaekek), Two Weapon Fighting (Human), Double Slice (Level 1)
Level 2: Swashbuckler
Level 3+: Any Class: Slashing Grace

Doing this method will then grant you access to the Divine Protection feat at level 5 if you choose the Trickery Domain and have a charisma worth taking the feat for.

Going ninja from 3+ could be fun if you grab pummeling style as the current reading of it seems to be understood as working with all weapons. Not so much if its unarmed strikes. On top of the charisma synergy for ki points and saves.

[Helix7901]

Sorry for the Necro, but I didn't wanted to open yet another thread on the Slashing grace/Sawtooth sabre subject.

My question is, Can I TWF with two Sawtooth Sabres while using Slashing grace to add DEX to Damage??
If yes, does the off hand weapon receives full DEX bonus to damage or just 50% as with STR??

[Cyd the Arcmagi]

yes and it would do 50% like Str, which you could take Double Slice to get the Damage back to 100%

[Trekkie90909]

You can TWF with sawtooth sabres with slashing grace for dex to damage.

Slashing grace replaces str with dex, so if you normally only get 50% str on your offhand you would only get 50% dex. If you have doubleslice or some other way to get 100% str to damage with your off hand slashing grace would give you 100% dex to damage with it.