Should the Offhand and Finesse traits be added to any of the RotRL cards? After my wife and I finished up our old RotRL game, we were tempted to use some of the new characters only to be dismayed that these traits seemed to be missing.
Finesse is on some cards, but it seemed that many cards it should have been on it was missing from, and I think Offhand was missing entirely.
I think those traits are on some of the cards actually. The daggers have the finesse trait for instance while some shields have the off hand trait.
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What cards do you think finesse "should have been" on? The dart and the dagger, maybe, but beyond that, there are actually quite a few finesse weapons cards in the Runelords set.
Some characters simply aren't going to be well-suited to this particular adventure path. On the other hand, other characters might be really good with it. Darago, for example, could be really good against the Undead monsters in Runelords.
"Some characters are not suited" does not hold much water when we are talking about Dual Wielding and Finesse. The Dagger should have had Finesse and probably should have Off Hand. Finesse is there on a fair amount of weapons, but some others should have received it.
The Gunslinger example is very different, since they are a Skull and Shackles character. These characters are the character decks and supposed to work with either, however I don't think that the new Dwarf Ranger has any Off Hands to use which is a primary ability of her's. I don't even know if Hawkmoon's suggestion would work for her since her ability specifically refers to weapons.
My wife and I can easily go back an change the weapons if we wish so that they fit logically to our beliefs, but would be good for these characters that are supposed to be backwards compatible to have some of this addressed.
Isn't finesse pointless on the dagger? It uses dexterity/ranged, so being able to use your dex for melee isn't going to change anything.
Are there any otherwise identical cards in RotR and S&S, which have the finesse or offhand trait in one, but not the other?
Isn't finesse pointless on the dagger? It uses dexterity/ranged, so being able to use your dex for melee isn't going to change anything.
Jirelle does get Melee: Dexterity +2 when using the finesse trait. Merisiel (S & S version) gets a +1.
But it being a ranged check, even if a dagger does has finesse they can't use their melee on it.
Isn't finesse pointless on the dagger? It uses dexterity/ranged, so being able to use your dex for melee isn't going to change anything.Jirelle does get Melee: Dexterity +2 when using the finesse trait. Merisiel (S & S version) gets a +1.
So? Dagger doesn't let you use your melee skill.
But it being a ranged check, even if a dagger does has finesse they can't use their melee on it.
Calls for a house rule then. Dexterity, Ranged, or Melee on the Dagger. Makes it not just a thrown weapon but also something that can be used in close combat.
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"Some characters are not suited" does not hold much water when we are talking about Dual Wielding and Finesse. The Dagger should have had Finesse and probably should have Off Hand. Finesse is there on a fair amount of weapons, but some others should have received it.
The Gunslinger example is very different, since they are a Skull and Shackles character. These characters are the character decks and supposed to work with either, however I don't think that the new Dwarf Ranger has any Off Hands to use which is a primary ability of her's. I don't even know if Hawkmoon's suggestion would work for her since her ability specifically refers to weapons.
My wife and I can easily go back an change the weapons if we wish so that they fit logically to our beliefs, but would be good for these characters that are supposed to be backwards compatible to have some of this addressed.
Hi Barator,
My first question for you is: are you using the actual character deck (as in shuffling it into your game) or just using the character sheet that Paizo released for free?
-If you're just using the character sheet, then you're really missing out on a lot of the boons that SHOULD be available to those characters. For example, if you were trying to play as Wu Shen from the Rogue deck in the Rise of the Runelords adventure path, you wouldn't have any poisons to use, negating the whole point of Wu Shen. You've got to include the boons from those class decks in order to make those characters work.
-The other reason it's important to use the class decks correctly is that Tanis and the others working on the game put a LOT of work into making those class decks, and it's really pretty unfair to use the characters from them without buying the deck, in my opinion. They release the sheets showing us the characters' powers and abilities so that we don't have to write on our cards, not so that we can just use the characters for free. I'm not saying that this was your intention, or that you even were doing so, I'm just making a point about paying for what we have available.
Anyway, this is all without knowing if you actually own the class deck. If you do, I'd suggest just shuffling all those cards in and working hard to try to find the ones your character needs.
Tyler
You've said a couple times that there are cards that 'should have had the finesse or off-hand trait', but to this point haven't given any examples. Could you perhaps provide a few of the cards that you think are poorly categorized? There may be a good reason, or it could just be that the developers didn't put a lot of attention into it since no Runelords characters noted it.
Also, if you're using a class deck character, you can add their deck into the box, and that should give you better options. (Or, alternately, you could use the OP rules for gaining rewards).
But it being a ranged check, even if a dagger does has finesse they can't use their melee on it.Calls for a house rule then. Dexterity, Ranged, or Melee on the Dagger. Makes it not just a thrown weapon but also something that can be used in close combat.
Well anything can be changed with house rules :/
Now that I think about it, one of Jirelle's role card powers lets her do something when she acquires a weapon with the finesse trait, but so far that's the only in-game effect I can think of.
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You say "supposed to be backwards compatible", but they've said from the very beginning that certain characters weren't going to be all that compatible without shuffling in cards from elsewhere. So, I'm not sure why you think that they should be.
Obviously you can house rule anything you want, but to expect something official doesn't make sense.
But it being a ranged check, even if a dagger does has finesse they can't use their melee on it.Calls for a house rule then. Dexterity, Ranged, or Melee on the Dagger. Makes it not just a thrown weapon but also something that can be used in close combat.Well anything can be changed with house rules :/
Now that I think about it, one of Jirelle's role card powers lets her do something when she acquires a weapon with the finesse trait, but so far that's the only in-game effect I can think of.
I guess if you you're gonna change the Dagger to have Finesse then you can add Melee while you're at it :)
Jirelle (Duelist) can get a power that after she acquires a card with the Finesse trait, she can recharge it and explore again.
The following weapons from RotR have the finesse trait:
Scimitar
Dagger +1
Sickle +1
Dogslicer
Spiked Chain
Starknife
Short Sword
Short Sword +1
War Razor +1
Dogslicer +1
Dancing Scimitar +2Now, I haven't seen the cards in S&S yet, but I would wait to see if the Dagger in that set has the finesse trait before adding stuff to other sets. But you can off course house rule whatever you want :)
Daggers in S&S do not have the finesse trait. The trait really only has an effect on melee weapons, and daggers are ranged in this game, so it makes sense.
In other words, the darts and daggers never should have had the finesse trait, so there's no point in updating them.
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Characters are RULES-compatible between different APs, but you can't expect every single character to work with the boons from other APs. If you want to play as the Gunslinger in Rise of the Runelords, you'll have to add gun boons from Skull and Shackles to the RotRL box, it's as simple as that. Same thing with any of the Finesse-based characters... you'll probably want to add some Finesse weapons to the box from S&S or one of the class decks if you want to play Finesse-based weapons in RotRL. This might even be a good reason to pick up an extra copy of one or two of the class decks... just to shuffle the boons into RotRL and make some more characters viable.
I might actually do so... pick up an extra copy of the Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard decks just to have a bunch of extra and unique boons in my RotRL set. Nothing wrong with that. :)
Chief Technical Officer
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Are there any otherwise identical cards in RotR and S&S, which have the finesse or offhand trait in one, but not the other?
While we will occasionally reword cards for clarity, a Dagger in one set should be functionally equivalent to a Dagger in the other.
The Finesse and Offhand traits are already on all the cards that we intend to have them.