Can a Shaman take Improved Familiar?

[jamesburkhouse]

It seems a Shaman cannot take improved Familiar, as he or she can't qualify for anything at 1st level, and if the animal is lost or dies, they can't summon a new one. This seems like an incredibly specific prohibition, buried in the text. Anyone know if there is a way around it, or maybe someone has heard if that is not what was intended? I have a hard time believing the game designers intended to prevent Shaman characters from taking improved familiars, but hey maybe they did!

I have a sweet character concept involving an Improved familiar, so any help is much appreciated!

[jamesburkhouse]

by "cannot summon a new one" I mean they cannot change their choice of spirit animal, and must replace the old with a new one of the same type.

[LazarX]

The shaman does not have the pre-requisite for the feat. He does not have a familiar.

[cavernshark]

LazarX wrote:

The shaman does not have the pre-requisite for the feat. He does not have a familiar.

Well, that's certainly not true. It's definitely a familiar.

Spirit Animal

Spoiler:

This ability uses the same rules
as the wizard’s arcane bond class feature and is treated
as a familiar (see pages 78 and 82 of the Core Rulebook),
except as noted below.

I think the question revolves around this statement:

Spoiler:

If a spirit animal is lost or dies, it can be replaced after
24 hours through a special ritual that consumes material
components worth 500 gp per shaman level. The ritual
takes 8 hours to complete. The new spirit animal must be
of the same sort of creature as the previous one.

Whereas a wizard could change the type of creature that serves as a familiar, Improved Familiar would seem to break the bolded part of that text. RAW, it would seem they cannot take the feat to swap to a new familiar type (e.g. Imp or Faerie Dragon). However, I think there's an argument to be made that a Shaman could take the feat to apply the Celestial or Fiendish template to their spirit animal, since I don't believe that changes the base type.

I'm definitely interested in the answer to this question.

[dragonhunterq]

I can't see any difficulty with going from, for example, 'cat' to 'silvanshee'.

[Calth]

Shamans don't have the necessary arcane caster level to select an improved familiar, as they are divine casters.

[Sarvei taeno]

ok so i read improved familiar and the shaman completely. while the shamans lvl is specifically treated as wizard lvls in regards to familiar their is the underlying statement that says a shaman cant change what type of animal its familiar is.

[jamesburkhouse]

Thanks I didn't even notice the arcane caster level requirement. I guess it really wasn't meant to be!! Thanks all.

[ARGH!]

Mockingfey have no caster level requirement...

[Bardess]

The Improved Familiar feat doesn't say that you must be an arcane caster to take it. And I can see a flame shaman with a small fire elemental, or a bone shaman with a nosoi or quasit (able to transform in a raven, if the first familiar was a raven). I'd rule that a shaman's Improved familiar must be related to her spirit or to her previous spirit animal.

[Calth]

The feat doesnt require it, the individual improved familiars generally have an arcane caster level to select them. Mockingfey is the one exception. Elementals, for example, require a 5th level arcane caster. Not a big deal to house rule, but that is the current RAW. Divine casters and familiars have been brought up before, but nothings been done about it by the dev staff.

[MichaelCullen]

Here is my two cents, the crux of the argument seems to lie with which takes precedence. The class ability restricting you to a familiar of the same type or the feat opening up new types. I would rule with the feat being the more specific rule and taking precedence over the class ability.

Core Rule Book under feats wrote:

as a general rule feats represent abilities outside the normal scope of a characters race and class. Many of them alter or enhance class abilities or soften class restrictions

.

In this case the feat is enhancing a class ability and softening a class restriction.

[Ghaleonausa]

Didn't the feat come out first, when there was no divine caster with a familiar, this should be updated to include shaman, especially since familiars are not strong.

[Mergy]

My shaman for Rise of the Runelords has an imp consular familiar with Improved Familiar. The bestiary entry requires a spellcaster of 8th level or higher, with no mention of arcane or divine. That said, I feel as though requiring arcane spellcaster levels for the base options is needlessly restrictive.

[Cao Phen]

I think it was believed that it was Arcane only when Pathfinder came out. They placed the arcane level req just in case a player wanted to dip into something else, with the requirements preventing them from getting a n elemental with only a level dip into wizard, for example. With now classes with divine familiars, and even fighters having martial familiars, there might be a confusion over what can and can not be available for the new classes/archetype.

[Hollister]

Okay - what if a Shaman took seven levels of Wizard so that they had the arcane requirement.

Could they then take improved familiar? Obviously they could - but how would this impact the Shaman's spirit animal?

(this makes my head hurt).

[Dave Justus]

Unlike a regular familiar, a shaman' spirit animal is a native outsider. I suspect that this is related to the restriction that that choose one and must keep it at character creation.

So it does sort of make sense that Shamans can't take improved familiars, since they already have a special, unique, improved familiar baked in.

[darth_borehd]

Anybody know if there is an official answer on whether a shaman can qualify for Improved Familiar?

[PsycDragon]

In the Player Companion Familiar Folio is the feat Familiar Bond.

The last sentence in the Special section of that feat states, "You can never have more than one familiar."

[MerlinRedbead]

I apologize for resurrecting a dead thread, here is the official answer:

FAQ wrote:

Improved Familiars: There are various ways for characters other than arcane spellcasters to gain familiars at this point, and some of those options even grant Improved Familiar as a bonus feat, but technically each Improved Familiar option requires a certain arcane spellcaster level to take it. Does that mean that non-arcane characters with Improved Familiar have a dead feature? How does it work? If it does work, can I take an Improved Familiar as some kind of variant familiar or a temporary familiar like the occultist’s soulbound puppet?

The Improved Familiar description was written back when only arcane spellcasters could have familiars, and it wasn’t sufficiently future-proofed. To that end, you can always substitute your effective wizard level for the purpose of determining your familiar’s abilities for “arcane spellcaster level” to determine the available improved familiars for your character. In general, you can take Improved Familiars for class-granted variant familiars like a shaman’s spirit animal, with a few exceptions: First, temporary familiars like the occultist’s soulbound puppet can’t become Improved Familiars from the Improved Familiar feat, and those class features don’t qualify you to take the Improved Familiar feat. Second, tumor familiars, as lumps of flesh in the shape of animals, can’t become Improved Familiars. In other cases, treat Improved Familiar as if it was an archetype to see if it stacks with other familiar options: since the two things it alters from a regular familiar are that it removes the ability to speak with animals of its kind and it prevents changing the creature type for non-animals, you couldn’t make a familiar that changes the creature type of non-animals or alters or removes speak with animals of its kind an Improved Familiar.