I'm loath to post multiple threads on a forum in one day, but this came up.
I'll be running a Skull and Shackles campaign soon for a single player (who has been aptly buffed up to be as powerful as three players and given an assistant) and he loves the idea of becoming the undisputable master of pirates. I've already scheduled him through past From Hell's Heart, past even the First Treasure supplemental idea. Then past that into becoming an interplanar pirate.
At the end, he wants to be able to challenge Besmara to a race around Golarion in their magical ships, then through the planes, then finally to a climactic pirate's duel onboard the Seawraith.
What I'm asking is, what would be good ideas for Besmara's combat capabilities? Putting her at no more than CR 40, what sort of trickery, weapons, and powers would be best to give her? I'd of course be using the Epic 3.5 rules, modified to fit with Pathfinder better, and possibly the Mythic rules or Divine rules from the SRD.
I'm mostly just asking what kind of abilities she should have beside weather control and ship to ship combat.
Make her Mythic, perhaps. Possibly gestalt, as well. I could see Besmara as, like, gestalt cleric/swashbuckler 20, mythic tier 10. Maybe slap on a few templates or something. But considering that PCs at that level are pretty much demigods in themselves, it should be a decent approximation.
20 Outsider Hit dice+20 Gestalt (like Sunsetpsychosis) levels, Mythic tier 10 and Divine rank 2 from 3e D&D Deities and Demigods ;D
Epic pillaging.
Like the ability to steal buffs, items, snag targetted advantageous spells as they're being cast by allies, etc.
.. and epic chaos.
His Noodly Apendage appearing to assist with flanking might be a good start... but that may be a bit more real world religion than your players would expect to see in a PF game.
-TimD
Well, as I always say in these sorts of things gods aren't meant to be stated up or challenged in Pathfinder. They are dilberately not given stats because they are meant to be immeasurably more powerful than anything PCs can hope to achieve. The nearest thing that are stated are demi-gods.
Personally, I would make the encounter one of rp only, with the understanding that the player cannot win.
HOWEVER! I would say that Besmara would "like the cut of his jib" and offer him a position as one of her heralds or some such. Or the chance to pirate across the multiverse aboard her ship.
If you insist on stating out the gods, you shouldn't limit this to CR 40. I believe Demonlords and Demi-Gods are CR 40. True gods should probably be at least CR 60. They should definitely have 10 Mythic Tiers. Outside of that, I don't really know. Gods really shouldn't be capable of being beaten by PCs.
I eat gods for breakfast, demon lords for lunch, and snack on arch devils throughout the day. It makes for an upset stomach but there are drawbacks to being omnipotent.
Just a joke, stay sane.
SunsetPsychosis wrote: Make her Mythic, perhaps. Possibly gestalt, as well. I could see Besmara as, like, gestalt cleric/swashbuckler 20, mythic tier 10. Maybe slap on a few templates or something. But considering that PCs at that level are pretty much demigods in themselves, it should be a decent approximation. That's a good plan. Since it'll only be the one character fighting, he's already a gestalt Marksman/Rogue with an emphasis on sneak attacks from a distance. It'd make sense for him to come against a character equally skilled, perhaps even with three effective 20th level classes like Swashbuckler/Cleric without preparing spells/Rogue or some other mixture of holy power and piratical traits. Oh, and, Mythic for sure.
TimD wrote: Epic pillaging.
Like the ability to steal buffs, items, snag targetted advantageous spells as they're being cast by allies, etc.
.. and epic chaos.
His Noodly Apendage appearing to assist with flanking might be a good start... but that may be a bit more real world religion than your players would expect to see in a PF game.
-TimD
As much as I love the Spaghetti Monster, Ra-men, I'll go towards your epic pillaging idea. Probably call it Impossible Piracy, and let her steal one buff from him, one item, or one power or spell that he's concentrating on per round.
Claxon wrote: Well, as I always say in these sorts of things gods aren't meant to be stated up or challenged in Pathfinder. They are dilberately not given stats because they are meant to be immeasurably more powerful than anything PCs can hope to achieve. The nearest thing that are stated are demi-gods.
Personally, I would make the encounter one of rp only, with the understanding that the player cannot win.
HOWEVER! I would say that Besmara would "like the cut of his jib" and offer him a position as one of her heralds or some such. Or the chance to pirate across the multiverse aboard her ship.
If you insist on stating out the gods, you shouldn't limit this to CR 40. I believe Demonlords and Demi-Gods are CR 40. True gods should probably be at least CR 60. They should definitely have 10 Mythic Tiers. Outside of that, I don't really know. Gods really shouldn't be capable of being beaten by PCs.
I don't know why so many people are adverse to the idea of taking on a god in an adventure in Pathfinder. He's going to be specifically trying to kill her and I think that if he can outpirate her he'd get her job. I view gods as beings of great power, but the power is a mantle that comes with the title, and if someone better comes along, they can lose it. ...Claxon, you're brilliant, my typing this response to you just gave me an idea on how to handle this!
You could also consider "gestalting" the mythic stuff. If you're already stacking classes, why not stack paths? Let her grab abilities from Champion, Trickster, and Hierophant. Give her a massive (or unlimited) pool of mythic power.
Swashbuckler 20/Inner Sea Pirate 10 plus spells as Warpriest or Cleric 20 from becoming a deity?
Don't forget she is the goddess of sea monsters too. A couple of mythic sea monsters with added templates should show up some place.
SunsetPsychosis wrote: You could also consider "gestalting" the mythic stuff. If you're already stacking classes, why not stack paths? Let her grab abilities from Champion, Trickster, and Hierophant. Give her a massive (or unlimited) pool of mythic power. Thanks to Claxon, I've thought of an excellent way to settle this. She'll release her godhood and somehow store it in a chest in the Seawraith's captain's quarters and take him on in the form of an Elder Water Elemental but as a Rogue 20/Swashbuckler 20/Inner Seas Pirate 10, with Mythic 10 in the Trickster path, a limitless supply of Mythic Power points, and the Impossible Piracy ability mentioned above, on top of being able to cast Summon Monster VI and up regarding sea beasts. The winner of the duel receives the chest, the loser is completely annihilated.
This way, she's still beyond most mortals and powerful enough to probably stab you in the feelings, but it's within possibility to slay her. After all, she is said to have started as a water spirit of some kind.
That sounds amazing. Make sure to post the results when it finally happens. :)
If she has unlimited mythic power, be sure to give her the mythic Bleeding critical feat.
I'd suggest instead of being annihilated, the loser perhaps has to serve the winner? That way she actually has something to gain from all this, a powerful, dedicated herald/servant. Otherwise, when she's all about keeping treasure and taking what others have... why risk giving up all she has for no gain? That doesn't seem very in keeping with her goals and domains. But tricking a powerful mortal into challenging her to a fight he can't win, to get him as a servant? That sounds exactly like her!
cartmanbeck wrote: That sounds amazing. Make sure to post the results when it finally happens. :) I intend to!
Suthainn wrote: I'd suggest instead of being annihilated, the loser perhaps has to serve the winner? That way she actually has something to gain from all this, a powerful, dedicated herald/servant. Otherwise, when she's all about keeping treasure and taking what others have... why risk giving up all she has for no gain? That doesn't seem very in keeping with her goals and domains. But tricking a powerful mortal into challenging her to a fight he can't win, to get him as a servant? That sounds exactly like her! I'd say she'd challenge him just to show him how outclassed he is. I'm going to send him along the First Treasure supplement found in From Hell's Heart, so he'd have many hundreds of thousands of ancient treasures stored away in a vault, and she'd claim it as her own if he was destroyed in addition to his magic items, magic ship, and so forth. That said, I like the idea!
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