I'm pretty sure the messenger is an active participant. Everything communicated is being done as though the messenger is in the dream speaking. The trance lasts as long as it takes to deliver the message, so both the messenger and the recipient would die of starvation.
It says nothing about knowledge above and beyond what the messenger already has the capability of giving, so there would be no multiverse meta-game knowledge. Since spellbooks include written words there would be no way to transfer them verbally into someone's brain.
I really don't think it's as ambiguous as you seem to think it is.
I'm pretty sure the messenger is an active participant. Everything communicated is being done as though the messenger is in the dream speaking. The trance lasts as long as it takes to deliver the message, so both the messenger and the recipient would die of starvation.
It says nothing about knowledge above and beyond what the messenger already has the capability of giving, so there would be no multiverse meta-game knowledge. Since spellbooks include written words there would be no way to transfer them verbally into someone's brain.
I really don't think it's as ambiguous as you seem to think it is.
There are ways to get around the starvation thing...
The spell doesn't say anything about preventing someone from waking up or being awoken. It does specifically explain that it doesn't force the recipient into sleep.
Remembers perfectly upon waking means he remembers just as well as if he had just had that conversation in person, instead of remembering like you normally remember a dream. It doesn't grant permanent eidetic memory of the conversation, additional skill points or spell knowledge any more than spending a few hours listening to someone lecture on those various subjects would.
Lastly, your idea that delivering a message for someone somehow implies that the person doesn't need to compose the message in the first place is silly.
I just love that the messenger gets no save, and it doesn't specify he has to be willing.
"Oh, noes! It's the BBEG! Quick! Hey, you! Deliver my grocery list to my wife! For our 30th wedding anniversary! For 300 guests! OK, guys, quick, let's finish him off before he finishes reading it!"
The spell does not force the recipient to stay asleep. This means that there's a "soft limit" on the amount of information you can give. Let's say the recipient sleeps for six hours, and let's say that the caster starts delivering the message right after the recipient goes to sleep. The spell does not prevent the recipient from waking up as normal. So this rules out your starvation plan.
Additionally, the spell specifically says that the messenger delivers "a message". You can't use it as a "free metagame download" unless the messenger actually has that knowledge.
The language isn't "loose". You're making assumptions on what the spell does without evidence.
"Oh, noes! It's the BBEG! Quick! Hey, you! Deliver my grocery list to my wife! For our 30th wedding anniversary! For 300 guests! OK, guys, quick, let's finish him off before he finishes reading it!"
Where’s the one minute cast time in that sequence?
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I suppose you might be able to use this to cut down on the number of retraining days if you are using those rules. But I'd say you must also hire a 2nd teacher (you couldn't have one teacher training you all day AND all night).
And even then only for certain things, not for retraining to gain more hp, for example.
And even then, a DM might rule you are not rested after such a sleep/training session.
"Oh, noes! It's the BBEG! Quick! Hey, you! Deliver my grocery list to my wife! For our 30th wedding anniversary! For 300 guests! OK, guys, quick, let's finish him off before he finishes reading it!"Where’s the one minute cast time in that sequence?
Oh, picky, picky! That's when you're cowering helplessly behind a rock hoping he doesn't notice you, of course!
Isn't that what the Silent Cowardly Spell feat is for?
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Something fun you could do is have the messenger disguise themself as an important figure in the target's religion and throw together some B.S. prophecy to drive the target nuts.
My wizarding master instructed me in the arcane arts every night, as I slept.
*shudders*
I. Will. Never. Forget.
:p
(In all seriousness though, this does seem like a good way to teach an apprentice how to use magic, and to make certain they remember ALL of your lessons. Or better yet, how to create government spies who use an intersect.)
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Well, you could also keep in mind that time works very differently in dreams. That and it doesn't force the recipient to sleep or not to wake up.
As to the message not needing to be information known to the caster, what kind of "message" would that be? I'm unfamiliar with any use of the word message that isn't information being passed from one person to another. Even if the messenger doesn't know a lot about what they're delivering, they must at least know the message.
So, with Dream you *could* give a message that takes a lifetime to tell. Possibly the story of the messenger's life. And it would pass like any other dream. The recipient would remember it all (as a story, of course, not as having lived it). But they would have been asleep for however long they were asleep for and no longer.
Oh, c'mon! You're all still thinking small! There's NO SAVE!!!
"OK, Cthulu, you will now recite the complete works of Vogon poetry to Yog'Sothoth. Do it with FEELING!"
Yeah, yeah, that party pooper Keep Calm and Carrion will ask just how often Yog'Sothoth sleeps. I have no idea, but I'd at least love to TRY!
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Yeah, yeah, that party pooper Keep Calm and Carrion will ask just how often Yog'Sothoth sleeps. I have no idea, but I'd at least love to TRY!
Obviously, you'd want to cast it the other way around...we know Cthulhu's napping. Or if he's awake, we're screwed anyway.
I still think taking ten rounds to cast a spell while within a move action of a Great Old One is a Bad Idea. You can't cast it in advance and hold the charge, since it's not a touch range spell.
Yeah, yeah, that party pooper Keep Calm and Carrion will ask just how often Yog'Sothoth sleeps. I have no idea, but I'd at least love to TRY!Obviously, you'd want to cast it the other way around...we know Cthulhu's napping. Or if he's awake, we're screwed anyway.
I still think taking ten rounds to cast a spell while within a move action of a Great Old One is a Bad Idea. You can't cast it in advance and hold the charge, since it's not a touch range spell.
Yeah, minor things like your utter obliteration might deter the less light-hearted members of your party, but I'm sure your paladins would LOVE it...
Whatever you do, avoid horses for a day...
That could be fun if the victim is supersticious.
A sufficiently loose reading of Dream makes it the perfect interrogation tool.
1) Have your ally take a nap.
2) Cast Dream.
3) Desginate your ally the target, make your prisoner the messenger, and tell him to deliver all his secret plans as the message.
Of course, if my players tried that, the ally would have a dream of the prisoner appearing and whispering the words, “All your secret plans.” Ditto for all the messages you folks think a caster could describe rather than speak literally: “My grocery list to my wife! For our 30th wedding anniversary! For 300 guests!” “Your life story.” “The contents of this spellbook.”
A sufficiently loose reading of Dream makes it the perfect interrogation tool.
1) Have your ally take a nap.
2) Cast Dream.
3) Desginate your ally the target, make your prisoner the messenger, and tell him to deliver all his secret plans as the message.Of course, if my players tried that, the ally would have a dream of the prisoner appearing and whispering the words, “All your secret plans.” Ditto for all the messages you folks think a caster could describe rather than speak literally: “My grocery list to my wife! For our 30th wedding anniversary! For 300 guests!” “Your life story.” “The contents of this spellbook.”
No; being serious for once, I'm in agreement with you: I think part of the 1-minute casting time is reciting the exact message to be conveyed. You can't just say, "The Gettysburg Address" or "My Shopping List". You have to take the time to recite it to the messenger. So if you want a 2-week dream you've got to talk for 2 weeks to implant the message. Good luck with that!
But if the title of the thread includes the words, "Hilarious Advantage", I think I have a bound and beholden duty to be a wee bit less than serious.
My wizarding master instructed me in the arcane arts every night, as I slept.
*shudders*
I. Will. Never. Forget.
:p
(In all seriousness though, this does seem like a good way to teach an apprentice how to use magic, and to make certain they remember ALL of your lessons. Or better yet, how to create government spies who use an intersect.)
Best part is! They cannot sleep through your course! (unless we are going all inception status here and dream inside of your own dream... or your lectures are just THAT boring....)
OK. True personal story time:
I was a math professor at an upscale private college where most of the students lived on campus. One semester I taught an 8:00 am Calculus course.
One young woman dutifully showed up on time every single day, rain or shine, in her pajamas with a pillow. She would come in, sit down at her desk, put down her pillow, and go straight to sleep.
I think that it says something about my teaching style that since she wasn't disturbing the other students, I didn't object.
So after about 6 weeks, I took her aside and confided, "Look. You're failing my class. At this point there's really no way you're going to pass. Why don't you let me give you a late drop slip and you can get some more sleep."
I'll never forget her response:
"Oh, no! Your voice is very soothing!"
"Besides, maybe if I'm here I might pick up something through osmosis."
So she completed my course with the single best attendance in the class, and the second-to-worst grade. (Yep, you've always got one winner who can't beat the sleeping girl.)
The next semester? She got a B+ in an afternoon calculus course and credited the whole thing to "osmosis" from the previous sememster.
It CAN work!
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I saw a YouTube video about Graham's number, which is the upper bound on the solution to a graph theory problem - even arrow notation, invented to describe outrageously big numbers, doesn't even begin to get a grip on it.
In the video, one of the mathematicians said that if you could load all the digits of Graham's number into your brain, the entropy inside your skull would become so low that that region would become a black hole. So you could assassinate someone (more like 'everyone') by dreaming that number into their head. :)
You would, of course, need a loony GM who would let you just say "Graham's number" rather than having to recite the digits...