Attribute Splits

[Wiggz]

I've had this on my mind for a while as a homebrew option, the splitting of existing attributes and their respective responsibilities for the purpose of greater character customization. The idea would be that for every attribute, there are two sub-attributes and the players have the option of them remaining static (i.e. Strength is a 14 so Power and Stamina would both be 14 as well), or having them separated by one or at most two steps (in which case Strength would be 14, but Power might be 15 or 16 while Stamina is 13 or 12 with a 4 point differential being the largest gap possible).

These are the breakdowns of each attribute that I'm planning at the moment:

Strength
Power - Attack & Damage, Lift limit, Strength checks
Stamina - Strength-based skills & Carry limit, Encumbrance

Dexterity
Quickness - Initiative, Reflex saves, Dexterity checks
Precision - Dexterity-based skills, Ranged and Finesse Attacks (& Damage)

Constitution
Health - Additional Hit Points per level, Constitution checks
Endurance - Constitution-based skills, Fortitude saves

Intelligence
Memory - Knowledge skills, Bonus Skill ranks & Bonus Languages
Acumen - Bonus spells per day, Non-Knowledge skills

Wisdom
Willpower - Will saves, Wisdom checks
Insight - Bonus spells per day, Wisdom-based skills

Charisma
Presence - Bonus spells per day, Charisma checks
Wit - Charisma-based skills

When in need of a 'default' in certain circumstances (like class features usable 3+Attribute/day, for instance), the base number can still be used without further complicating things.

I'm looking for potential refinements as well as situations I may not have accounted for - thoughts, anyone?

[Kazaan]

So, essentially, if a wizard wanted to "dump" Strength but didn't want his swimming or carry limit to suffer but didn't care as much about raw Str checks or Attack/Damage rolls, he could say his Strength is an 8 (giving him -2 points to point buy) but he calculates encumbrance and Swim/Climb as if he had 10 Str and attack rolls and such as if he had only 6 Str?

[Rub-Eta]

What about AC from DEX?

Edit:
Also, where would all the "add Ability modifier to" be? I mean like Dervish Dancer and Zen Monk. And many others

Now that I've looked closer on it, I also noticed that Endurance and Willpower are basically save-bonus stats (How often do you roll Wisdom checks? And there are no Constitution skills).

Charisma isn't split well at all: Presence is a charisma caster-stat and a must have for them while it's a dump stat for everybody else.

And my biggest complaint would be: It's too complicated. Now you need to track 12 scores and 12 modifiers. There will be confusion at the table.

My tips would be: Don't try to force a split. Maybe all sub-attributes shouldn't be equal?
If you want anybody to use your system, make sure they want to. Ex: Right now, Dexterity is split into Init + Ref save (Quickness) and Dexterity skill bonuses + Attack rolls (Precision). What if they want high Ref save and high Attack rolls but don't care much for skill bonuses or Init?
This is something others will have to give input on, perhaps in this thread

[Beopere]

Interesting.

Intimidate should be keyed off of Presence instead of Wit... should it not?

I realize you split things up with balance and customization in mind. But...

[Zhayne]

The Player's Option books for 2e did this. If you can find them, might want to look it up for ideas.

[christos gurd]

there are no constitution based skills so endurance only affects fort

[Lincoln Hills]

Zhayne wrote:

The Player's Option books for 2e did this. If you can find them, might want to look it up for ideas.

Yeah, the house-rules you're thinking of were actually a set of published rules about 17 years ago. Be warned: they turned out to be readily abused by players who abuse that kind of thing.

Myself, I've been thinking about compacting the stats further - Str and Con, Wis and Cha - to run on a four-stat system of Might, Grace, Wits and Will. But that's because I'm favoring more Story and less Simulation as I age.