natural weapon / unarmed strike

[nekoyami]

I've been thinking of making a magus that has claws naturally ( tiefling's claws), could I use those claws as a weapon and free hand, or would I still have to get IUS, or possibly dip 2 levels in ranger for the combat style feat(s) for natural weapon combat?

Would I be able to use spell combat/sprllstrike with the natural weapons without getting a feat/dip in another class just to use them as "weapons " even though I would have them naturally?

[Rynjin]

Yes and yes.

Natural attacks require no further proficiencies to use or anything. If you have them, you have them.

[wraithstrike]

The ranger natural weapon style does not allow you to use claws with iterative attacks. There is an item you can put over claws to make them count as weapons.

Natural weapons would not work with two weapon fighting so no spell combat. I don't think spellstrike works either.

These are for catfolk, but it is not game breaking to allow them for a tiefling.

Quote:

Claw Blades: These subtle blades can only be used by catfolk with the cat's claws racial trait. Bought in a set of five, they fit over the wearer's claws on one hand. The blades grant the wearer a +1 enhancement bonus on claw attack rolls with that hand and change the weapon type from a natural weapon to a light slashing weapon. Catfolk with the cat's claws racial trait are proficient with this weapon. The claw blades can be enhanced like a masterwork weapon for the normal costs. The listed cost of the item is for one set of five claws for one hand.

If this is a home game ask the GM if he/she will allow it.

[Trekkie90909]

For PFS and the like:

Natural weapons will only work with two weapon fighting if you take feral combat training; this basically lets you use your claws whenever you'd normally be able to make an unarmed strike; it's feat intensive though.

Easiest way to get it would be with a monk splash, but it'd be far cheaper to just buy the claw blades.

The best way to get around this is to just find a DM who thinks it's a fun idea; there's nothing inherently unbalanced about it after all.

[nekoyami]

I would not be using them for 2wf, merely as a way to use spell combat/spell strike. Since claws count as primary weapons wouldn't I be able to use them for this purpose?
I know naturally based on the definition of natural attacks with primary weapons I should get both claw/claw. Would that not be the same for purposes of claw/spell?

[Bandw2]

I'd say go for a bite attack so you have no issue with spell combat and needing a free-hand(you'll also apply 1.5 your strength mod if you don't have claws).

[Trekkie90909]

Natural weapons are light weapons, so it works for spell combat. If you only have one natural attack then you get 1.5 x str mod to damage regardless of the type of attack (claws/bite/primary/secondary/etc).

[Bandw2]

Trekkie90909 wrote:

Natural weapons are light weapons, so it works for spell combat. If you only have one set of natural weapons then you get 1.5 x str mod to damage regardless of the type of attack (claws/bite/primary/secondary/etc).

double claws(along with wings and pincers and such) count as just strength mod, it's the number of attacks that matter.

[Trekkie90909]

Quote:

These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.

Unless you take feral combat training, you only get one natural attack from the claws because for your type of creature it's your primary attack.

[Bandw2]

Trekkie90909 wrote:

Quote:

These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.

Unless you take feral combat training, you only get one natural attack from the claws because for your type of creature it's your primary attack.

claws come in a set of 2(unless you're missing arms), and you always gain 2 attacks from them. They always apply just strength mod. I found this guy as an example character.

also: the race in question

Tiefling wrote:

The tiefling can choose a bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage or two claws that each deal 1d4 points of damage.

Eidolon's can even gain like 6 claw attacks.

[nekoyami]

So... My idea is possible, I would just need to get FCT if I wanted to add US feats to my NW?

[Mojorat]

If you want to use a natural attack with spell combat you can do so but will only get a single natural attack. There is a FAQ somewhere on it. If you want to make iterative attacks you need fct.

[Kazaan]

Bandw2 wrote:

I'd say go for a bite attack so you have no issue with spell combat and needing a free-hand(you'll also apply 1.5 your strength mod if you don't have claws).

That wouldn't work:

FAQ wrote:

Magus: When using spell combat, can the weapon in my other hand be an unarmed strike or a natural weapon?

Yes, so long as the weapon is a light or one-handed melee weapon and is associated with that hand. For example, unarmed strikes, claws, and slams are light melee weapons associated with a hand, and therefore are valid for use with spell combat. A tail slap is not associated with a hand, and therefore is not valid for use with spell combat.

You can't use a natural weapon not associated with the hand in conjunction with Spell Combat. And you're only allowed one singular weapon to use so you can't, say, wield a Longsword but also supplement with bite, wing, tail, or other non-hand weapons. So if he wants to use a natural weapon, it's got to be Claws, Slams, or some other hand-associated weapon. Furthermore, since he must use one hand for all his attacks, all the attacks you can make with the claw on one hand is... one. The other claw is preoccupied casting a spell. So a natural attack Magus isn't all that great as you'd only get a single attack with one claw/slam. He'd be better off using Unarmed Strike since he'd at least get iteratives and, as a bonus, Unarmed Strikes can deliver touch charges so, by using a multi-touch spell like Chill Touch/Frostbite, he can cast first, deliver for free, then continue with iteratives and each punch delivers another charge.

[Claxon]

He could still use other natural attacks with Two Weapon Fighting spell combat, but the rest would effectively become Secondary Natural Attacks and all would suffer a -5 to attack and only get half strength. But I'm pretty sure he could still make them...they would just suck terribly.

[claudekennilol]

Claxon wrote:

He could still use other natural attacks with Two Weapon Fighting spell combat, but the rest would effectively become Secondary Natural Attacks and all would suffer a -5 to attack and only get half strength. But I'm pretty sure he could still make them...they would just suck terribly.

I just rolled up a magus and this is what I plan on doing. Regular spell combat (no claws as both hands are used up in spell combat) plus a bite attack. Sure, it's -5 to hit (and I think only 1/2 str bonus) but it's still another chance to deliver a touch spell if both my weapon swings miss.