Does reduce person give a stealth bonus?

[claudekennilol]

Reduce person makes you small (assuming from medium), small creatures get a stealth bonus, so does reduce person make you more stealthy? The rest of the size differences from medium to small are pretty much summed up in the spell description, but it doesn't mention stealth. So since it's not printed is it not part of its effect? Or is it just assumed outside of the effects printed?

[Rory]

claudekennilol wrote:

Reduce person makes you small (assuming from medium), small creatures get a stealth bonus, so does reduce person make you more stealthy? The rest of the size differences from medium to small are pretty much summed up in the spell description, but it doesn't mention stealth. So since it's not printed is it not part of its effect? Or is it just assumed outside of the effects printed?

Yes. This is described in the stealth skill.

"Creatures gain a bonus or penalty on Stealth checks based on their size: Fine +16, Diminutive +12, Tiny +8, Small +4, Medium +0, Large -4, Huge -8, Gargantuan -12, Colossal -16."

[Zan Greenshadow]

Rory's explanation seems obvious, and I completely agree, but is there an official paizo ruling somewhere?

(I recently faced a challenge from a player who asserted that if it wasn't noted in the spell, there was no additional benefit and that being made small by the spell -- starting from medium -- was NOT the same as being a small creature. While this type of logic is certainly true in the case of spells like polymorph with respect to creature type and related creature abilities explicitly granted by the spell, it would not seem to apply in the case of a simple size change and any size-related benefits. However, a formal ruling would be nice.)

[fretgod99]

That's a hard argument for your player to stick to. The spell says it changes the size category of the target. Certain things happen when your size category is different. I'm not sure you're ever going to get an official answer because I'm not sure that the rules can get much more obvious, to be honest.

[James Risner]

fretgod99 wrote:

not sure you're ever going to get an official answer because I'm not sure that the rules can get much more obvious, to be honest.

+1

But it seems obvious to us, but doesn't to the OP.

[Zan Greenshadow]

I should have said 'fellow player' and I completely agree with you. But, at any rate, hoping for a simple confirmation, even if obvious (to us). Presence of dissenting opinion indicates that a clarification might help.

(...and the other obvious assumptions are that Fly will get +2 and Intimidate vs. Larger will get -4.)

[James Risner]

It would be a full time job to answer all the "simple confirmations" in any given day. So I would expect to ever get one on this issue. Rule 0 it and move on ;-)

[DinosaursOnIce]

Yep, they get a stealth bonus (and a fly bonus and all of the other size related things).

I'm playing a Druid with no ranks in stealth in a party with 1 person who can psuedo scout. The way we "stealth" is having my character Wildshape into something Tiny and go check things out.

[ShoulderPatch]

Saying what's already been said but Reduce Person does not give a bonus... directly. However the Stealth and Fly rules give the bonus and they state what size gives what effect while putting no limits on how the size was achieved.

Those are in the RAW, Dev adjudication shouldn't be needed. Any player arguing otherwise needs to explain where is their rules exception to the skill rules, saying it isn't in the spell doesn't change it is in the skill rules and the spell provided no exemption to them, if they can't point to an exception then they follow the skills rules.

[_Ozy_]

Yup, someone reduced to small via reduce person would be 'blown away' by 'windstorm' force winds even though that isn't specifically called out in the spell description.

[Zan Greenshadow]

Thanks to all who replied. Now that I think of it, this thread also applies to SMALL creatures becoming TINY and using DEX rather than STR for Climb and Swim skill checks (in addition to changing other attributes as above per the tiny category).