help with a tetori monk for PFS

[w01fe01]

just wanted to hear some ideas on how to make a good tetori monk in PFS. ill be attending one next week.

here is the catch, i only have the CRB/Ultimate combat pdf's.

and a question that goes off a tetori build, at level 8 i get the grab ability, would it be smart of me to retrain out of snapping turtle style and into snake style at that point?

[solitary_solidarity]

Tetori pretty much lays it out for you with it's list of bonus feats. I recently built a human Tetori NPC and his feat structure was:
1: Imp Grapple(bonus), Combat Expertise(human bonus), Imp Trip
2: Stunning Pin(bonus)
3: Ki Throw
5: Binding Throw
6: Greater Grapple(bonus)
7: Greater Trip
9: Rapid Grappler
10: Pinning KO(bonus)
11: Pinning Rend

If you're not using the APG, that frees up Combat Expertise, Imp Trip, Ki Throw, and Binding Throw and Greater Trip. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of great options for early feats with this build. You could always pick up some basics like power attack, dodge/mobility, etc. but those are kinda lackluster. Deflect Arrows is never a bad choice, and of course you have all sorts of Style feats to choose from. Snapping Turtle isn't bad, since it allows you to grapple when it's not your turn, but after a while, your options for grappling become redundant. Your opponent is going to be grappled one way or another. I would drop it for some added versatility.

[Imbicatus]

My dwarf Tetori went something like this:

STR: 16
DEX: 14
CON: 14
WIS: 16
INT: 12
CHA: 5

1: Improved Grapple, Snapping Turtle Style
2: Stunning Pin
3: Snapping Turtle Clutch
5: Celestial Obedience (Faylana) Since you don't have chronicles of the Righteous, change that to Weapon Focus (Grapple) OR Snapping Turtle Clutch
6: Greater Grapple
7: Whichever you didn't pick at 5
9: Rapid Grappler

I would keep Snapping Turtle Style, It's good for when you are attacked AND it lets you grapple two things at once. Also you only get Grab by spending Ki, so it's a limited resource.

You really want to get Final Embrace on the build for constrict and a ki free grab. However to do that means getting a belt of anacondas coils, or a two level dip into white haired witch.

[w01fe01]

ya gonna have to be the belt

i wasnt understanding tetori level 8 wording on grab

it says it grants me the grab ability

it does not say, allows me to spend ki to grant me the grab ability for 1 round

the fact that the key spenditure is listed after, as if seperate from granting me the grab ability is odd

this is what im looking at (human)

1-snapping turtle style/imp initiative
3-snapping turtle clutch
5-chokehold (you no talk now)
7-jawbreaker (you no bite/talk now)
9-rapid grappler
11-lunge

im basically gonna roleplay macho man randy savage

tho i need ultimate equipment to get hte belt (damn PFS requiring me to own the material lol)

[Scott Wilhelm]

Actually, I favor Master of Many Styles for my Grappling Build. And Multiclassing, lots of Multiclassing.

1Ranger1: Freebooter Improved Grapple

I find the ability to grapple is a neat trick and just the thing sometimes.

2R1Monk1: Snake Style, unarmed damage 1d6, Stunning Fist, Wis mod to AC, Monk Weapons

This character will carry armor and use a shield, but MOMS Monks don't get Flurry anyway, so not much is lost.

3R1M2 Evasion Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes

I LOVE this Attack of Opportunity Trigger, and the higher AC really helps.

4R1M2Alchemist1 Bombs1d6, Mutagen, Extracts, Extra Bombs, Alchemy

The Dexterity Alchemal Mutagen increases the AC by 6 points and raises the Maximum Attacks of Opportunity by 2. The DPR increase is greater this way than for a Strength Mutagen.

5R1M3A1 Maneuver Training, Still Mind, Monastic Legacy

The Unarmed Strike Damage bumps up to 1d8 from 1d6.

6R1M3A2 Tentacle

+4 on all Grapple Checks. Also, she can now use her shield while Grappling without suffering the -4 penalty for not having 2 hands free.

7R1M3A2Fighter1 Weapon Focus Tentacle, Feral Combat Training Tentacle
With FCT, the Tentacle does US damage, and you can use the Tentacle for the Snake Fang AoO trigger. Wear Armor Spikes, and you do an extra 1d6 +bonuses of Armor Spike damage with every hit.

"This is the way we double our damage, double our damage, double our damage. This is the way we double our damage, so early in the morning!"

8R2M3F1A2 Improved Natural Attack

Your tentacle inflicting damage as if you were 1 size bigger bumps it from 1d8 to 2d6.

9R2M3F1A3 Bombs 2d6, poison Use and resist, Greater Grapple
10R2M3F1A4 King Crab Tumor Familiar

In addition to an additional +2 on Grapple Checks, there is a really neat defensive trick I want to try exploiting the familiar's Fast Healing.

11R2M3F1A4Cavalier1: Mount, Tactician, Challenge, Paired Opportunist, Potion Glutton

12R2M3F1A4C2 Expert Captor

So the Expert Captor ability will allow for a 1 round Tie Up, and with Potion Glutton, she will be able to take an Extract of True Strike as a Swift Action, which means that she will be able to defeat really formidable monsters in 1 round. Say by running up to the Ancient Black Dragon and using a Wand of True Strike. Then the next round, Initiate with a +20, popping an Extract of True Strike as a Swift Action, and then rolling to maintain as a Move Action, using the Expert Captor ability to Tie Up the beasty.

Or, the Wizard could DimDor her up to the Dragon and then she can go to work.

I'm going to call her Dia Zerva, the Iron Maiden, who is also something of a famous wrestler. Also, with the Armor Spikes, she sort of is that Spiked Torture machine...

[w01fe01]

wtf man...seriously? lol.

i favor myself having decent system masterying but thats just too much for me

plus i assume that is beyond level 12

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

No its 12 levels. I must say wow myself. I'm favoriting that build. Seems like a fun one to run in a homebrew.

[Scott Wilhelm]

w01fe01 wrote:

wtf man...seriously? lol.

i favor myself having decent system masterying but thats just too much for me

plus i assume that is beyond level 12

Aw, shucks, thanks guys! *takes a bow*

If I were going beyond level 12, it wouldn't be PFS, and I could take levels in Vivisectionist. Then my next 4 feats would be Quick, Great Dirty Trick. Then, I could Blind opponents, denying them their Dex Bonuses, securing the sneak attack damage.

Bear in mind that when you get Sneak Attack Damage, you get it whenever you inflict damage. That means for the tentacle attack AND for the Armor Spikes.

[Scott Wilhelm]

More along the lines of following directions, building a grappler Monk with the Tetori Archetype, I have a few thoughts. I think the core of a devastating grapple build is Greater Grapple, Expert Captor, and Potion Glutton combined with the Alchemist Extract True Strike. In principle, the Grappler should be an intersection of all the abilities, feats, traits and magic items that enhance the Grapple Mod. And the Tetori ability to ignore the Freedom of Movement, Inescapable Grasp, is significant and difficult to replicate.

I made a list of effects that give bonuses to Grappling.

Feats
Improved Grapple +2
Greater Grapple +2
Coordinated Maneuvers +2
Moonlight stalker +2 attacks

Class Abilities
Tentacle (Grab Ability)+4
King Crab Familiar +2
Freebooter Ranger Archetype Favored Enemy Class Ability +1 attacks
Judgement Inquisitor Class Ability +1 attacks

Items
dan bong +2
gauntlets of the skilled maneuver+2
Amulet of Mighty fists +1-+5*
Brawler Armor Enchantment (+1 equivalent) +2
Adhesive Armor (7000gp) +2
Ioun Stone +1 attacks

So here is a proposed Tetori Monk build attempting to maximize for grappling.

Half Orc:
1Cavalier1: Order of the Penitent, Combat Expertise, Coordinated Maneuvers
2C1Monk1: Improved Grapple
3C1M2 Blind Fighting, Stunning Pin
4C1M3: Still Mind, Maneuver Training (for other Maneuvers)
5C1M4: Keen Scent, Graceful Grappler, Counter Grapple
6C1M5: Break Free
7C1M6: Greater Grapple, Moonlight Stalker
8C2M6 Expert Captor
9C2M6Alchemist1: Extracts, Mutagen, Bombs, Extra Bombs, Potion Glutton
10C2M7A1:
11C2M8A1: Grab, Counter Grapple vs. Concealment, Feat, Practiced Tacitician, Combat Reflexes, Improved Disarm?
12C2M9A1: Inescapable Grasp

The Moonlight Stalker Feat gives you a +2 attack and damage against anyone you have Concealment from. Blind Fighting and Combat Expertise are prerequisites for this feat. I like to throw in the Keen Scent feat, too and carry around means for reliably giving myself Concealment.

My favorite is the Eversmoking Bottle. Everyone in a large radius will be Blinded, but you will navigate freely with Blind Fighting and know which way to go with Scent. Scent will also let you know exactly which squares your victims are in. You will still have the Total Concealment Miss Chance, but Blind Fighting will let you reroll it, dropping it from 50% to 25% effectively. I have found this tactic very unpopular with other PFS players, who usually just get boned whenever they go Blind. But if the party were properly prepared, the tactic is absolutely devastating.

[Scott Wilhelm]

* This had been the subject of some intense debate. I personally demonstrated conclusively that the Grappling Combat Maneuver was an Unarmed Attack, and therefore fit the profile of the Amulet of Mighty Fists.

There is an FAQ stating that Combat Maneuvers are usually unarmed, not always, such as enjoying the +2 bonus from attempting a Disarm Attempt while using a Flail implies you are using the flail to disarm. Grapple attempts are therefore usually unarmed.

The specific description of the Combat Maneuver Check states that it is an attack roll.

Therefore a Combat Maneuver-an attack and unarmed-is an unarmed attack.

The Design Team made a specific change in the rules to specifically exclude Combat Maneuvers from the Amulet of Mighty Fists so that Combat Maneuvers are still (usually) Unarmed, and they are Attacks, but by the fantasy logic of the fantasy world, they are not Unarmed Attacks. I guess it is sort of like how a Home Depot Store Credit is given to you on a card that says Credit, it is still different from a Home Depot Credit Card. They are 2 different things of the same name. Anyway, I am proud of my role in forcing this ruling from the Design Team.

But in this case, a Tetori Monk of sufficient level gets the Grab Ability attached to his Unarmed Strikes. And the Grab Ability grants a +4 to all Grapple Checks, not just the Free-Action Grapple attack granted by the Grab Ability. That means that you Tetori Monks ARE using your Unarmed Strikes to make your Grapple Checks, and you DO gain the benefit from the Amulet of Mighty Fists.