If you make a melee attack, and your target drops to 0 or fewer hit points as a result of your attack, you can make another melee attack using your highest base attack bonus against another opponent within reach. You can make only one extra attack per round with this feat.
Does whirlwind count as a melee attack? I ask because it says 'a melee attack' and not 'an attack action', and it's a full-round action that is a single attack against multiple enemies. If it works, does that mean if you down or kill someting you can keep on a spinnin'?
So, it would work with the improved version too?
This was a well known exploit in 3.0, the whirlwind attack, bucket of snails, great cleave trick. Basically, an ally throws a load of snails at the fighter, fighter uses whirlwind attack, and kills every snail, then each snail killed grants an attack, so fighter uses every extra attack (all at highest BAB mind you) against the BBEG, or any other nearby target.
So, keep in mind that if you consider whirlwind attack a "melee attack" rather than a special attack action, it's opening up a door to some abuse. Regular cleaving finish limits you to one extra attack, but improved cleaving finish is unlimited.
So, keep in mind that if you consider whirlwind attack a "melee attack" rather than a special attack action, it's opening up a door to some abuse.Whirlwin attack is a full round action not an attack action (a fancy word for standard action).
And the wording of cleaving finish just say melee attack , meanisn any attack that you made in melee.
And it is not an abuse, it is like 6 feats. It is at the power leve of a feat chain that long.
If you're okay with it, that's fine. Just wanted to warn people who weren't aware. I imagine some people might balk at the idea of a 2H fighter getting 12 or more highest BAB attacks in a single round.
Whirlwind Attack prereq's:
BAB +4
Dex 13
Int 13
Combat Expertise
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Improved Cleaving Finish Prereq's:
BAB +6
Str 13
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Cleaving Finish
So that's 10 feats to get this off in all its amazingness.
That's 8th level for a human fighter or 9th for any other race fighter IF you spend all your feats on just these.
If you just went for Cleaving Finish (To gain one extra attack) then you only need to spend 8 feats, putting you at 6th/7th level for human/anyone else. That's a hell of a lot of feats, but a nifty combo. :)
It is for a human fighter. He's a hick and uses a scythe that he took from the farm when ran off looking for glory. I of course realize it's a combo for my mid-game at the earliest, provided I don't take things like toughness and other things for survivability.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Cleave, Power Attack.
Benefit: If you make a melee attack, and your target drops to 0 or fewer hit points as a result of your attack, you can make another melee attack using your highest base attack bonus against another opponent within reach. You can make only one extra attack per round with this feat.
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You can cut down many opponents in a single strike.Prerequisites: Str 13, Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Great Cleave, Power Attack, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You can use Cleaving Finish any number of times per round.
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You can strike out at every foe within reach.Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
The last line of Whirlwind Attack would seem to disallow the use of (Improved) Cleaving Finish.
Thank you, Honourable Goblin. (Scratch that one off the list of phrases I never thought I'd say. :P )
I figured they'd disallowed it somehow, given how well known an issue it was.
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There has been discussion among my circle of players about Whirlwind and various other abilities that can be used with it.
You can Power Attack and Lunge, which my Half Orc Weapon Master (With a Scythe) has done.
You can not Cleave, Vital Strike, or do anything else that is also a full round action (Or part of a full round attack) We also determined that we can use charge to whirlwind instead of making a single attack. (Wouldn't that be a surprise)
Just remember, you can toggle (Power Attack), but not go full tilt (Cleave).
0.0'' Never noticed that clause in Whirlwind attack before... Now Jethro can't be the ultimate melee tornado of death.
thaX,
You cannot charge and whirlwind at the same time.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
CRB p183 has a list of full-round actions. Full attack is a full-round action. Charge is a separate full-round action. Full-attack actions and Charge actions are both subsets of the Full-round action.
Since Whirlwind Attack can only be used when making a Full-attack action you cannot use it with another type of action (such as a Charge action) even if that action is also a full-round action.
thaX,
You cannot charge and whirlwind at the same time.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.CRB p183 has a list of full-round actions. Full attack is a full-round action. Charge is a separate full-round action. Full-attack actions and Charge actions are both subsets of the Full-round action.
Since Whirlwind Attack can only be used when making a Full-attack action you cannot use it with another type of action (such as a Charge action) even if that action is also a full-round action.
What about when you're allowed to use a full attack action as part of a charge?
Like with Pounce you mean? It reads like you can Pounce-Whirlwind. That's pretty cool.
It looks amazing in my head. Like, anime as all get out. Sadly, it'd probably be a bad idea in practice when you could just kill one target instantly with full-attack-to-the-face.
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I recently noticed that the Sarenrae-Ranger combat style allows you to go to Whirlwind without all those silly prerequisites. But I haven't yet found a neat way to combine that with Pounce.
I think the thing with Whirlwind is, it's occasionally good, for example if you happen to be adjacent to 2-3 enemies that your iteratives aren't super-likely to hit anyway. That's probably 80% of the feat's use.
That's nice, but not worth the huge feat tree. Now if you can get Whirlwind at a discount, then it's nice as an option just for when it's good, rather than it being your complete strategy.
(By the way: kudos to Paizo for finally, if sneakily, enabling a truly whirling dervish.)
I figured they'd disallowed it somehow, given how well known an issue it was.
Yes, it wasn't allowed in 3.5, it's not allowed in Pathfinder, even if the feat changed names.
What about when you're allowed to use a full attack action as part of a charge?thaX,
You cannot charge and whirlwind at the same time.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.CRB p183 has a list of full-round actions. Full attack is a full-round action. Charge is a separate full-round action. Full-attack actions and Charge actions are both subsets of the Full-round action.
Since Whirlwind Attack can only be used when making a Full-attack action you cannot use it with another type of action (such as a Charge action) even if that action is also a full-round action.
I suppose it would work, though you would also lose any extra attacks you would get from effects like Haste.
I recently noticed that the Sarenrae-Ranger combat style allows you to go to Whirlwind without all those silly prerequisites. But I haven't yet found a neat way to combine that with Pounce.
You take 6 levels of Ranger and get Whirlwind Attack with the bonus feat. You then take 10 levels of Barbarian (I'd personally take Invulnerable Urban Barbarian, but your call on this,) taking the full Beast Totem line.
It takes 16 levels to do, unfortunately, but it can be done. (Maybe if you could ignore Pre-reqs for Totem Rage Powers with an Archetype, it could be done sooner.)
That being said, that's an awful lot of work when an 11th level or higher Mobile Fighter can probably do the same thing.
At 11th level, a mobile fighter can combine a full-attack action with a single move.
That's sort of like a Staggered Pounce. The best part is, you exchange your regular attacks (in which you end up losing your highest BAB anyway) for a full Highest BAB against all in reach. Brutal stuff!
Or, you could take Wild Stalker Ranger and get the whole thing going at level 13.
I'm guessing the Sarenrae Ranger stuff is in Inner Sea Gods?
This could make sense, (and even that's a stretch, since those rage powers actually require Barbarian Levels to take them), except how would you then get Whirlwind Attack, when that archetype replaces the Bonus Feats that allow you to skip the pre-reqs?
16th seems to be the earliest by my count, since A. those rage powers need Barbarian levels specifically, not the ability to rage as a Barbarian, and you probably aren't going to get Whirlwind Attack anytime soon unless you get to skip the pre-reqs.
It seems that it only replaces 2nd level, not 6th level bonus feats.
Trust me, all the extra Combat feats are replaced.
Heck, I would've taken it with my Infiltrator Witchguard Ranger if it only replaced the first bonus feat.
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thaX,
You cannot charge and whirlwind at the same time.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.CRB p183 has a list of full-round actions. Full attack is a full-round action. Charge is a separate full-round action. Full-attack actions and Charge actions are both subsets of the Full-round action.
Since Whirlwind Attack can only be used when making a Full-attack action you cannot use it with another type of action (such as a Charge action) even if that action is also a full-round action.
Oops... Meant that I can not... Can't do it.
Sorry.