Best Spells to take with Samsaran Mystic Past Life?

[ParagonDireRaccoon]

What are some opinions on the best spells to add to your spell list with Samsaran Mystic Past Life? We could break it down by class- I suspect some of the best arcane spells will be summoner spells and divine spells on arcane spell lists, and some of the best divine spells will be druid spells and some of the litanies from the paladin spell list.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Anything class specific like some of the better paladin spells. Antimagic field for the arcane types. Or spells from the druid list like Flame Blade, Entangle, and Plant Growth

I would assume you can't use Mystic Past Life to add a spell to a spell list that it's already on, even if it's a different level. Such as adding Haste to the wizard list.

[ParagonDireRaccoon]

I would assume so too, I think summoner gets better versions of summon monster spells than sorcerer/wizard.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

The difference in the summoner's summon sla comes from the class feature, not the spells themselves, sadly.

[ParagonDireRaccoon]

It looks like there are a lot of options- for divine casters, anti-paladin spells and domain spells could give access to some arcane spells. A ranger, paladin, warpriest, or inquisitor could benefit from taking spells on another martial/partial caster list. Arcane casters can use either bard or witch to gain some divine spells. Bard, alchemist, witch, magus, and summoner get a lot of options (sorcerers and wizards have a pretty diverse and flexible spell list, casters with more limited and focused spell lists can gain a lot of flexibility with spells from another spell list). ACG classes will add new spell lists, of course. And clerics and druids gain a lot with the ability to grab to add a few spells from another divine spell list (both have great spell lists, one or two more spells is huge). Sorcerers, with a more limited number of known spells, benefit a lot but maybe a little less than vancian casters- a wizard can mix and match spells while sorcerers are giving up more by taking a non-sorcerer spell.

[ParagonDireRaccoon]

So here are some spells worth considering with Mystic Past Life:
(spell with an * are ones I think could be particularly useful)

Bard: Bard gives some divine spells on an arcane spell list, and some buff spells that could help a zookeeper build (summoning or undead focused caster, including summoners). Also has some 'shadow' spells that give a lot of flexibility. [cure spells and summon monster spells at every level are worth considering]
1st- Hideous Laughter, Silent Image, Touch of Gracelessness; 2nd- Blindness/Deafness, Blur, Cacophonous Call, Calm Emotions*, Heroism, Invisibility, Steal Breath, Suggestion; 3rd- Confusion*, Good Hope, Haste*, Invisibility Sphere; 4th- Dimension Door, Dominate Person, Freedom of Movement, Greater Invisibility, Modify Memory (this is a personal favorite, but requires GM favorable GM judgement to use effectively on major NPCs), Shadow Conjuration; 5th- Greater Heroism, Shadow Evocation, Vengeful Outrage; 6th- Irresistible Dance, Overwhelming Prescence, Programmed Image

Druid: Druids have a very versatile spell list, with summon, buff, battlefield control, healing, debuff, travel, and direct damage. A martial character can improve their combat effectiveness or use summon nature's ally spells, a zookeeper can use buff spells, and some nature spells are both cool flavor-wise and pretty powerful. As always, cure and summon spells are worth considering at every level. There are a lot of great spells, here are a few highlights:
1st- Entangle, Faerie Fire*, Obscuring Mist; 2nd- Fog Cloud, (buff spells- bear's endurance et al), Soften Earth and Stone; 3rd- Greater Magic Fang, Stone Shape; 4th- Air Walk, Flame Strike, Freedom of Movement,; 5th- Awaken, Baleful Polymorph, Communal Air Walk, Control Winds, Fickle Winds, Transmute Rock to Mud; 6th- mass versions of buff spells, Wall of Stone, Wall of Thorns; 7th- Creeping Doom*; 8th- Earthquake, Sunburst, Whirlwind; 9th- Elemental Swarm, Shapechange

Cleric has a lot of spells, and I'm not very familiar with Alchemist spells. If there's interest in this thread hopefully others with greater experience with some of the spell lists will add to the suggestions here.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Having just done a stint playing a Samsaran Summoner with this, I'll way in on spells that are good to GIVE Summoners with this:

1st level:
magic missile - the spell even Druids envy
gravity bow - there are many ways a Summoner and Eidolon can work together in combat; one popular way is the Eidolon is a melee dreadnought while the Summoner favors archery, and with a 3/4 BAB and limited magical powers compared to Sorcerers, Witches, and Wizards, a Summoner can potentially put this spell to wicked use
snapdragon fireworks - a wonderful spell for those who don't find themselves moving more than 5 feet per round
solid note - "What's this? A wacky and useful conjuration spell that Bards have been keeping all to themselves? If it's conjuration, it's for me! *raspberry*"

2nd level:
blindness/deafness - a badass spell from a badass school, often underestimated, but one of the best of its level
acid arrow and/or scorching ray - more nasty offensive spells; the latter's virtues are many, but acid arrow is worth extra attention to the Summoner who took Spell Focus (Conjuration), as they are so likely to do so (I was playing a Master Summoner, who gets the Augment Summoning feat at 2nd level with no need for prerequisites, so I had less incentive)
cure moderate wounds - this isn't a bad level to take a "cure wounds" spell from the Bard list; at 1st level, Summoners have infernal healing, and past this level, the many good things ramp up quickly (and greater infernal healing shows up at 4th level); if you want the ability to heal someone other than your Eidolon, quickly, and for a difference-making amount, this is a safe choice
silence - this comes, somewhat ironically, from the Bard list; of all arcane magicians, Summoners depend on direct spellcasting the least, so this is a great way to turn the tables on enemy spellcasters (PROTIP: Cast it on your Eidolon - DANGER! DANGER!)

3rd level:
fireball and/or lightning bolt - the sorcerer's darlings, as some call them; choosing just one, lightning bolt might be better for Summoners, since it's easier to avoid blasting your Eidolon and any other summoned monsters with
vampiric touch - for Summoners who prefer melee (or just want to be ready for when they inevitably wind up in it on occasion), this is a welcome ability

4th level:
animate dead - "MONSTERS! MONSTERS EVERYWHERE! A-HAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!"
bestow curse - another tenacious and nasty surprise that you'll be well-suited to deliver with your competent BAB (note that the ability to crucify single adversaries with your magic is a standout weak spot in the Summoner's standard repertoire, and several of my suggestions here address that)
phantasmal killer - tickler of Clerics, slayer of Rogues

5th level:
waves of fatigue - mass-misery spells are a strong suit of Summoners, but this one is beyond the reach of most
mass cure light wounds - "OHNO CLERIC DOWN - heyyy, we've all been healed a little, the Cleric's stabilized, and these shadows everywhere seem a little nonplussed, to boot! How did that happen...?"
music of the spheres - a beautiful symphony, a wonderful spell, and all the better the more friends you have to share it with
suffocation - phantasmal killer offer too many ways out for you? Ah, well, good things come to to those who wait....

6th level:
animate objects - Be our guest, and let this spell take your innate aptitude for "making friends" to new heights!
dirge of the victorious knights - Why buy when you can rent? In
the words of Robin Williams: "Run - IT'S A STAMPEDE!"
contingency - an old wonder-worker; a Summoner need only say, "if my Eidolon X, Y will save the day!"
unwilling shield - Your Eidolon can benefit from this, too....

[Azten]

You know what's fun about 7th level Samsaran Druids? Being able to cast Holy Sword. Well, if they're Neutral Good anyway. :)

[andreww]

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

The difference in the summoner's summon sla comes from the class feature, not the spells themselves, sadly.

Not quite.

The benefit for wizards and sorcerers picking from the summoner list is that they get many spells one or more levels sooner than other classes. This is because the summoners spell list is really a 9th level caster list condensed into 6 levels.

So our samsaran wizard/sorcerer can grab the following spells at lower than normal levels:

Level 2: Haste
Level 3: Dimension Door
Level 4: Baleful Polymorph, Dismissal, Magic Jar, Teleport, Overland Flight, Summon Monster V, Lesser Planar Binding
Level 5: Banishment, Creeping Doom, Greater Dispel Magic, Greater Heroism, Planar Binding, Plane Shift, Repulsion, Simulacrum, Summon Monster VII, Greater Teleport
Level 6: Mass Charm Monster, Dominate Monster, Greater Planar Binding, Maze, Summon Monster VIII

There are more, these are just a few examples of the spells you can gain early access to as a Samsaran arcane caster. However, not only do you gain them anywhere between 2 and 6 levels earlier than normal but because they are lower level it is much easier to apply metamagic to them. For example it would normally cost a full price 73000gp Rod of Persistent Spell to apply it to Dominate monster but using this option you can simply memorise Persistent Dominate Monster instead or use the 32k rod.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

andreww wrote:

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

The difference in the summoner's summon sla comes from the class feature, not the spells themselves, sadly.

Not quite.

The benefit for wizards and sorcerers picking from the summoner list is that they get many spells one or more levels sooner than other classes. This is because the summoners spell list is really a 9th level caster list condensed into 6 levels.

So our samsaran wizard/sorcerer can grab the following spells at lower than normal levels:

Level 2: Haste, Slow
Level 3: Dimension Door, Black Tentacles
Level 6: Mass Charm Monster, Dominate Monster, Greater Planar Binding, Maze, Summon Monster VIII, Incendiary Cloud

Fixed that for you. :)

[andreww]

Slow is strong, Black Tentacles falls off fairly quickly and Incendiary Cloud is crap even at level 6. At level 8 it is just incomprehensible.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

andreww wrote:

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

The difference in the summoner's summon sla comes from the class feature, not the spells themselves, sadly.

Not quite.

The benefit for wizards and sorcerers picking from the summoner list is that they get many spells one or more levels sooner than other classes. This is because the summoners spell list is really a 9th level caster list condensed into 6 levels.

So our samsaran wizard/sorcerer can grab the following spells at lower than normal levels:

Level 2: Haste, Slow
Level 3: Dimension Door, Black Tentacles
Level 6: Mass Charm Monster, Dominate Monster, Greater Planar Binding, Maze, Summon Monster VIII, Incendiary Cloud

Fixed that for you. :)

I'm still fairly certain you can't use mystic past life to add those to the wizard list since they're already on the wizard list. Yes, at different levels, but they're still on the spell list already.

[Gibblewret_Tosscobble]

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

I'm still fairly certain you can't use mystic past life to add those to the wizard list since they're already on the wizard list. Yes, at different levels, but they're still on the spell list already.

you can. already been confirmed

[Zautos']

any new spells that are good?

[Tobias Bøggild-Damkvist]

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs429pk?Best-non-wizard-spells

See this thread, it is about the same. I have gotten a lot of positive feedback on it.

[doomman47]

Flame strike as a level 4 spell from the druid list is pretty good when every one else that gets it has it as a level 5, throw that on a blasting sorc that gets +3 dmg per die and you got your self one nasty aoe.