Okay, so this was inspired by Arachnofiend's thread. To summarize, it's about building a four-player party with no 6/9 casters, with the capability to handle any typical party challenge. (I interpreted this myself to also exclude the Adept NPC class). I've come up with a team I'd like to share, and ask for input on. Some of these characters have been mentioned in other threads. They are codenamed Leonardo, Michelangelo, Donatello and Raphael. :)
First, a very brief summary of each character; if not interested in the details, this is the only spoiler you really have to read to answer the thread.
Leonardo: Aasimar Paladin. Leader, face, healer, Ki Battery, Life battery (Shield Other), caster, smiter.
Raphael: Half-Elf Zen Archer/Fighter/Ranger/Evangelist/Lantern Bearer. DPS, trapper, tracker, spotter, sneaker, caster (limited but crucial spells like Dispel Magic), wizard item user.
Michelangelo: Human Barbarian. DPS, damage sponge, superstition, spell sunderer, invulnerable, Eldritch Heritage.
Donatello: Dwarven Monk. Quasi-Caster Support. Bardic Music, monk abilities/spells applied to the party, crafting, spellcraft, knowledge checks.
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If you're interested, here are the specific restrictions/rules I imposed on myself:
* No using classes that get spells above 4th level, not even dips.
* Two traits; no drawbacks allowed.
* No 3rd party material whatsoever.
* No using Fame or Guild boosts
* Nothing that isn't published in final form (such as the Advanced Class Guide classes)
* Characters must have one alignment and one deity throughout their entire career.
* No retraining, except retraining specifically allowed by class features like the fighter.
* Evangelist PrC's Aligned Class ability can only be used on base classes. (Just too much potential for abuse otherwise)
* No getting multiple sets of boons by taking levels in both Sentinel and Evangelist (rules unclear here)
* No trait can be repeated among any of the characters, including traits that give the same bonus. (Such as Reactionary and Elven Reflexes). This one is just to force variety.
* No Leadership feat. Sentinel grants another Bonus Combat Feat instead of Leadership.
* No using racial SLAs to qualify for anything. It's allowed by the rules, I understand that, but it's a lame.
* Crafting feats are assumed to give some wealth advantage, and so are desirable for someone in the party to have, even though I'm not spelling out equipment.
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Next I present the list of typical challenges, and how the party can deal with them.
Traps: Raphael has the trap-finding ability from level 1, and has absurdly high perception, and a maxed disable device. Michelangelo has extremely high perception as well.
Face: Leonardo has maxed Diplomacy, high Intimidate, and can speak an absurd number of languages (5 at level 1, two more every level thereafter). All four characters have decent Sense Motive capabilities.
Knowledge: Donetello does all the knowledges. They are all class skills, so he has a +3 trained bonus, +4 from Deific Obedience (3rd level), +2 from Ki Mystic (3rd level), a reasonable INT and later a +2 from Kirin Strike (15th). He'll eventually put more ranks into the big 6 knowledges, and craft Mossy Green Ioun Stones.
Stealth: Everyone but Leonardo is decent at stealth, with Raphael maxing it.
UMD: First, Raphael counts as a 1st level wizard for activating items, so doesn't need it. Leonardo can likewise activate paladin spell items. By mid level, both Donatello and Leonardo have a sufficiently high UMD to always make the DC 20 for wands.
Handle Animal: No one has an animal companion, but Leonardo and Michelangelo can both do this sufficiently well for basic training.
Acrobatics: Everyone but Leonardo (with his Heavy Armor) has this maxed.
Spellcraft: Donetello has it maxed, so that he can do the crafting. He'll make/buy a detect magic at will item ASAP. Raphael and Leonardo have a bit of capability here, too.
Survival: Raphael's got this one.
COMBAT
Michelangelo is, of course, a rage-pouncing DPS machine who uses his Eldritch Heritage to get even more insane, and his high DR and Superstition rage powers (boosted by favored class bonuses). He'll get Spell Sunder, too, which helps against a lot of magic that may otherwise be hard to deal with.
Raphael is a ranged DPS, though he's less than ideal for levels 1-3, before he gets to use WIS for attack rolls. Later he gets Lantern Bearer spells, like dispel magic and dimensional anchor, which are very useful.
Leonardo is a 2-hander Paladin with a healing bent. His DPS is reasonably due to Power Attack, but it falls behind Michelangelo and Raphael when he's not smiting. He's also the party healer. In combat, he rarely uses Channel Energy (not a good use of action, and it heals enemies). When he gets 2nd level spells, he'll use Shield Other to simulate the effect of a Life Oracle.
Donatello is the most complicated, and the linchpin in many ways. First, he has "Advice" which is bardic music limited to Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, and Inspire Greatness. Limited rounds per day, but he has Lingering Performance to shore this up. His complicated combination of archetypes allows him to apply many monk abilities and spells to his teammates. At level 12, he can apply it to all of them at once. This includes 'barkskin', 'true strike', 'see invisibility', 'restoration'.
He also notably has the power, at level 5, to spend ki to allow allies (within 30 feet) to re-roll attack rolls or saving throws (which includes himself, since you are your own ally). At level 12, he'll be able to do it to all allies at once, if multiple ones fail the same saving throw. Later, at level 15, he'll use Wholeness of Body applied to the entire party when he has nothing better to do. Due to Leonardo's Ki Channel, ki limitations are not a concern.
MISCELLANEOUS
Flight: Early on, mainly sticking to ranged combat to deal with flying enemies. By mid level, mostly relying on items. Leonardo and Michelangelo will both be using Celestial Plate as soon as they can afford it, and Donatello can craft on a few more uses of fly per day onto that. Raphael and Michaelangelo have less need to fly, not being melee-focused, but can grab a wand between them.
Darkness/Invisibility: Donatello and Leonardo both have darkvision. Raphael has low-light vision, gets 'darkvision' from Lantern Bearer, as well as plenty of powerful light spells. Michelangelo is more limited, though he grabs the Blind-Fight feat at level 5. He'll either need an item for darkvision, or ask his fello party members to turn the light on. For invisibility, at level 7, Donatello is able to cast 'see invisibility' on any party member using 2 ki (1 ki with the Ring of Ki Mastery). Can apply it to all party members at once at level 12. Raphael similarly gets 'see invisibility' by mid-level.
Transportation: Early on, a lot of walking/horse-back riding :). If mid-level teleportation is crucial, they'll have to rely on scrolls (which Raphael can use). Due to his Oath Against Fiends, Leonardo gets 'plane shift' as a 4th level Paladin spell, for when that is necessary. Much later, at Monk 17, Donatello gets 'shadow walk' which can substitute for teleport.
Crafting: Donatello can do Wondrous Items, Magic Arms & Armor, Rings. Wands, Potions, Scrolls and Rods will have to be purchased.
Resistances: Due to his Oath Against Fiends, Leonardo gets 'resist energy' as a 1st level spell rather than a 2nd level spell. This may not seem like a big deal, but it is, since that means 1st level Pearls of Power can be used for it, making it very economical to apply to the whole party.
Resurrection: Leonardo has Ultimate Mercy at level 11 to fill in for 'Raise Dead'. Between that and Donatello's 'restoration' SLA, it won't even cost anything to die. Now, if a Resurrection or greater is needed, they'll need to look to scrolls/NPCs.
Conditions: Leonardo has his Mercies, of course, further boosted in variety from items. Donatello's no spell component party-wide 'restoration' at level 12 makes ability damage (and thus poisons) practically a non-issue. Before then Leonardo has his 'lesser restoration'. The party also largely has the 'don't fail will/fort saves' strategy going for them, which they are very good at, especially given the re-roll potential Donatello offers.
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What I'm most looking for are things I've overlooked. What challenge could bring this party down, or at least prove insurmountable? I'm less interested in things that no party can really do anything about (Like a Mind-Blanked Wizard running hither and yon). So, I suppose, what could a "normal" party handle that this party could not handle effectively/efficiently? Obviously anything can be handled with expensive consumables, but that's unsatisfying. Any input on the builds themselves is also very welcome.
Lastly, the full builds (with some gaps in feat/rage power choices) if you desire to see them.
Leonardo - LG Angel-Blooded Aasmiar Paladin of Irori
Paladin (Oath Against Fiends, Hospitaler) 20
The noble leader, Leonardo does his best to stand between foes and the more squishy members of the party. Outside of combat, he acts as the party face, and speaks many, many languages. Until level 15, he is the sole healer for the party (excluding wands of CLW), relying on his lay on hands as well as his Hospitaler's channel energy. At level 15, Donatello gains the ability to use Wholeness of Body on the entire party at once, making it more efficient for Leonardo to use his Ki Channel feat to recharge Donatello
Racial
+2 Str, +2 Cha
Darkvision 60
Languages: Common, Celestial, Elven (to start)
Deathless: Resistance 5 to negative energy; no hp loss from negative levels; +2 racial bonus to saves against death effects, energy drain, negative energy, necromancy effects
Spell-Like Ability (Sp): 'alter self' 1/day, caster level = character level
Truespeaker: +2 Linguistics & Sense Motive; gain 2 languages for each rank in Linguistics
20 pt. Str 17 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 17 (after racial)
25 pt. Str 17 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 17
First into Strength, 2nd into charisma, rest into strength
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
Spells: Standard Paladin, CL = Paladin level -1. Oath Against Fiends adds 1st: resist energy, 2nd: detect thoughts, 3rd: invisibility purge, 4th: plane shift. Unsanctioned Knowledge at level 15 gives more choices (haven't picked yet).
Skills: Will eventually need an INT/CHA booster; can skip wisdom. This guy is the face (though we've got others assisting on the sensing of motive).
Maximize: Diplomacy, Linguistics (two languages per rank, we want him to speak most everything)
Secondary: Intimidate, Sense Motive, UMD, Perception
Tertiary: Spellcraft, Handle Animal
Notably Absent: Bluff; this is LG aligned party, and Leonardo himself is a Paladin.
Uses Bardiche, Full Plate > Celestial Plate
Paladin 01. Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day. FEAT: Fey Foundling
Paladin 02. Divine Grace, Lay on Hands
Paladin 03. Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Mercy: Fatigue. FEAT: Power Attack
Paladin 04. Channel Positive Energy (Hospitaler Style, 3+CHA/day, as Cleric level-3)
Paladin 05. Divine Bond: Weapon, FEAT: Ki Channel
Paladin 06. Mercy: Staggered
Paladin 07. Smite Evil 2/day. FEAT: Greater Mercy
Paladin 08. Anchoring Aura
Paladin 09. Holy Vessel (can split Divine Bond points between weapon and armor), FEAT: Critical Focus
Paladin 10.
Paladin 11. Aura of Healing, FEAT: Ultimate Mercy
Paladin 12. Mercy: Stunned
Paladin 13. Smite Evil 3/day. FEAT: Staggering Critical
Paladin 14. Aura of Faith
Paladin 15. Mercy: Nauseated FEAT: Unsanctioned Knowledge (Which spells???)
Paladin 16.
Paladin 17. Aura of Righteousness, FEAT: ???
Paladin 18. Mercy: Paralyzed
Paladin 19. Smite Evil 4/day. FEAT: Deific Obedience??? (Irori) for sheer style at level 20. Who needs to touch the ground?
Paladin 20. Holy Champion
Equipment to get at some point: Luckstone, Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, Bracers of the Merciful Knight, Phylactery of Positive Channeling, Bracelet of Mercy (for diseases), Merciful Baldric (much later)
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Raphael - LG Half-Elven Lantern Bearer Archer
Ranger (Freebooter, Trapper) 1 / Monk (Zen Archer, Qinggong) 6 / Lantern Bearer 9 / Fighter (Weapon Master) 3 / Evangelist 1
Outside of combat, he handles traps, stealth, & survival, and can use magic items as a 1st level wizard. In combat, he is a ranged DPS machine (All the standard archer stuff, plus Arcane Strike based on the CL for Lantern Bearer), who has a small selection of critical spells, most notably dimensional anchor and dispel magic (later quickened), which he uses at key junctures.
Racial:
+2 Wis
Dual-Minded: +2 to Will saves
Elven Immunities: Immune to sleep, +2 to saves v. enchantment
Keen Senses
Low-light vision
Arcane Training (Wizard): Can use spell trigger and spell-completion items as a 1st level wizard.
Skills:
Lantern Bearer requires: Know (Dungeon) 5, Know (nature) 2, Survival 5
Maxed (in order of importance): Perception, Disable Device, Stealth, Acrobatics, Survival
Secondary: Sense Motive, Spellcraft
1 rank: Climb, Heal, Ride, Swim
Note that, Per this, the caster level of Lantern Bearer works for Arcane Strike.
Traits:
Race: Elven Reflexes: +2 Initiative
Second Trait: Wisdom in the Flesh (Stealth)???
20 pt. Str 12 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 19 Cha 7; (after racial)
25 pt. Str 14 Dex 14 Con 13 Int 13 Wis 19 Cha 7; (after racial)
All points into Wisdom
Need +4 dex by level 11 for Manyshot. Before then, use Flurry of Bows. If not possible by level 11, switch Manyshot and Snap Shot in feat order.
Need +2 int item by level 12, or no 3rd level Lantern Bearer SLAs. There are Ioun Stones that will do the job, as we only need +2 INT ever
1. Ranger 1. Trapfinding, Freebooter's Bane, Track, Wild Empathy, FEAT: Deadly Aim
2. Monk 1. Flurry of Bows, Wis to AC, Unarmed Strike, MBF: Precise Shot
3. Monk 2. MBF: Point-Blank Shot, WF (Longbow), FEAT: Combat Reflexes
4. Monk 3. Zen Archery, Point-Blank Master, Fast Movement +10
5. Monk 4. Ki Pool, 'true strike' SLA, FEAT: Arcane Strike*
6. Monk 5. High Jump, Ki Arrows
7. Monk 6. MBF: Improved Precise Shot, WS (Longbow), Fast Movement +20, FEAT: Rapid Shot
8. Lantern Bearer 1
9. Lantern Bearer 2. FEAT: Clustered Shots
10. Lantern Bearer 3
11. Lantern Bearer 4. BF: Elven Accuracy, FEAT: Manyshot
12. Lantern Bearer 5
13. Fighter (Weapon Master) 1. FEAT: Snap Shot. FBF: Improved Snap Shot
14. Lantern Bearer 6
15. Lantern Bearer 7 FEAT: Quicken Spell Like Ability (Dispel Magic)
16. Fighter (Weapon Master) 2. FBF: Monkey Style
17. Fighter (Weapon Master) 3. Weapon Training (Longbow) +1, FEAT: Quicken Spell Like Ability (Dimensional Anchor)???
18. Lantern Bearer 8
19. Lantern Bearer 9 FEAT: Deific Obedience (Erastil)
20. Evangelist 1 {Awesome Erastil Evangelist 20th level Boon}
*The Monk SLA 'true strike' is used to qualify for this feat here. Once Lantern Bearer is reached, will be able to use full character level as caster level for Arcane Strike.
Qinggong changes
Slow Fall > 'true strike' SLA
Important Equipment: Bow, obviously. Gloves of Dueling at level 17. WIS booster.
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Michelangelo - NG Human Barbarian
Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) 20
Racial
+2 Strength
Skilled
Focused Study
20 pt. Str 18 Dex 12 Con 15 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 11 (after racial)
25 pt. Str 19 Dex 12 Con 15 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 13
1st point in con, then rest in strength
* Needs successively a +2, a +4 and a +6 CHA item to get the Eldritch Heritage feats. Or less for 25pt. buy.
Skills:
Max: Perception, Acrobatics
Secondary: Handle Animal, Sense Motive, Swim, Climb, Stealth
Traits
Armor Expert
Defensive Strategist
Rage Powers: Superstition Line, Beast Totem Line, others.
1: Barbarian 1 Human Skill Focus: Perception, FEAT: Raging Vitality
2: Barbarian 2
3: Barbarian 3 FEAT: Power Attack
4: Barbarian 4
5: Barbarian 5 FEAT: Blind-Fight
6: Barbarian 6
7: Barbarian 7 FEAT: Extra Rage Power???
8: Barbarian 8 Human Skill Focus: Survivial
9: Barbarian 9 FEAT: Eldritch Heritage (Orc): Tough of Rage
10: Barbarian 10
11: Barbarian 11 FEAT: Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orc): Strength of the Beast +2
12: Barbarian 12
13: Barbarian 13 FEAT: Extra Rage Power???
14: Barbarian 14
15: Barbarian 15 Strength of the Beast +4, FEAT: Extra Rage Power???
16: Barbarian 16 Human Skill Focus: Acrobatics
17: Barbarian 17 FEAT: Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orc): Power of Giants
18: Barbarian 18
19: Barbarian 19 Strength of the Beast +6, FEAT: Extra Rage Power???
20: Barbarian 20
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Donatello - LN Dwarven Monk of Irori
Monk (Sensei, Ki Mystic, Contemplative, Qinggong) 20
At level 15, he'll get Wholeness of Body back. Now, it may seem shocking, but Wholeness of Body is actually useful. He can now spend 1 ki as a standard action to heal the entire party an amount equal to his monk level. Not as much as channel energy, but it excludes enemies automatically, and he can do many, many more of them than the Paladin can channel. Gives him something additional to do at higher levels, after he's buffed everyone, and means the party can finally stop carting around CLW wands by the dozen.
Leonardo can use Ki Channel to "recharge" him of an amount of ki equal to the number of channel dice; between the two of them Donatello can use upwards of 100 ki per day at high levels.
Racial
+2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha
Hardy: +2 v. poison, spells, spell-like abilities
Stability: +4 CMD v. bull rush or trip when standing on ground.
Darkvision 60
(Other Racial Abilities are replaced by Contemplative Monk archetype)
20 pt.: Str 12 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 17 Cha 5 (after racial adjustments)
25 pt.: Str 12 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 18 Cha 6
Note that at level 2, he'll use wisdom for his attack rolls. Level 1 he'll admittedly be a bit of a lump, other than doing knowledge checks and using Inspire Courage.
Traits (Second two come with the Extra Traits feat at level 9):
Faith: Spell Intuition (+1 Spellcraft, Spellcraft is a class skill)
Magic: Spark of Creation (+1 to all craft skills; reduce item creation cost by 5%)
Region/Race: Glory of Old: +1 to saves against poison, spells, spell-like abilities. (bring the Hardy bonus to +3 total)
Social: Clever Wordplay (Use intelligence bonus for UMD)
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (all), Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Stealth, and Swim.
Skills
Will get a INT/WIS item (no need for charisma)
* Max: Perception, Spellcraft, Acrobatics
* One point in all knowledge skills ASAP; will get +3 trained bonus, +2 to all from Ki Mystic (3rd), +4 from Deific Obedience (3rd), +2 from Kirin Strike (15th), +2 from int (increasing with headband later). More points in needed knowledge skills later on.
* Have UMD maxed by level 9 (won't be able to use it before then, since we don't have the trait to use INT in place of CHA until level 9)
* Keep Sense Motive and Stealth up when possible. Maybe one rank in Diplomacy, just so his modifier is positive. :)
Important Equipment:
* Cracked Magenta Prism (+2 competence bonus to any skill, can be changed once a day). Uses this for Spellcraft when crafting, and UMD when not crafting.
* Ring of Ki Mastery is critical, as it brings the 2 ki costs of several abilities down to 1. Can craft it himself at 11th, if not acquired earlier.
* Mossy Ioun Stones: Cheap to craft for a +5 bonus to needed knowledges.
* Big 6 stuff. Though, weapons not very important, except getting the guided property.
1: WIS to AC, BMF: Deflect Arrows, Unarmed Strike, Advice, Awaken Divinity, Spurn Tradition (Proficiency: Sansetsukon), FEAT: Lingering Performance
2: Insightful Strike (Use WIS for attack rolls)
3: Maneuver Training, Ki Mystic, FEAT: Deific Obedience (Irori)
4: Ki Pool, 'barkskin' SLA, Monk AC
5: 'true strike' SLA, Mystic Insight, FEAT: Craft Wondrous Item
6: Mystic Wisdom
7: 'see invisibility' SLA, FEAT: Craft Magic Arms and Armor
8:
9: FEAT: Extra Traits
10: BMF: Medusa's Wrath
11: Mystic Visions, FEAT: Forge Ring
12: 'restoration' SLA, Mystic Wisdom Upgrade
13: Mystic Prescience +2, FEAT: Kirin Style
14:
15: Wholeness of Body, FEAT: Kirin Strike
16:
17: 'shadow walk' SLA, Diamond Soul, FEAT: Monkey Style
18: Mystic Wisdom Upgrade
19: Mystic Persistence, FEAT: Kirin Path??? Combat Style Master???
20: Perfect Self, Mystic Prescience +4
Qinggong Monk Switches:
Slow Fall > Barkskin
High Jump > True Strike
Abundant Step > Restoration
Quivering Palm > Wholeness of Body
Tongue of the Sun and the Moon > Shadow Walk SLA
Timeless Body > Diamond Soul
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My favorite synergy is probably the fact that the monk can potentially use, at level 20, 120-130 ki a day thanks to Ki Channel. This is without ki leeching; we're talking about a LG party, after all :)
Hmm.. I think Barbarian is more "party dude", though?
The Ratfolk Sensei is an important NPC; the challenge was limited to four characters, after all :)
Ah, fair points, all. I'll consider the switch.
Yes, upon consideration, I believe you're both correct, and Raphael should be the Barbarian. My only dissatisfaction comes, then, from the fact that Michelangelo will end up with a low charisma score. I'll see if I can correct for that without breaking the build. :)
they should all be experts with profession artist.
Michelangelo should have profession (painting) but be utterly annoyed that he does as well.
Ha I love the note about adept. I will admit I too felt it got around the spirit of the other thread but who really expects an adept build :).
There were some really great builds in there, and these look good too.