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It might be a flawed assumption, but my guess is that the "someone in this thread is so close that they're practically right" came between the posts here and here.
Your clues are that prior to this post on Aug 1st at 10:42AM, a "one word" location wasn't present in the thread yet.
Kaer Maga was present in the thread prior to that point, along with most other major one word locations in Garund.
One of the points of evidence for my "Against the Slave Lords redux" theory stems from JJ commenting here about the premium hardcover of the classic, which would of course need to be used as a creative source if something were to become a Pathfinder spiritual successor. Plus, I'm really a fan of a chain-themed AP around the time of Pathfinder Unchained, so slavers and kytons, right?
As a final thought, a traditional AP involving giants and orcs seems to indicate that Paizo is going back and covering some classic ground they were missing. I'd imagine in the presence of D&D 5E, there will be gamers coming back to game stores looking to fight orcs, dragons and... drow? It would be good timing for Paizo to really hit the drums and put their take on the Darklands back in the forefront of gamer minds, otherwise they could lose gamers who want to play with the Underdark to the alternatives. I'd also imagine that would let them sell more figs, since they haven't really produced a ton of Darklands/Underdark style miniatures yet, so it would make sense to see such a set next year.
Originally, I thought Second Darkness's existence might delay such a release until later, but if they are doing Giantslayer (which treads on some similar ground to Runelords), it might be time to go back to some of the locales from Second Darkness or Dark Markets (which were 3.5e products IIRC).
Maybe Justin Franklin is just being coy really knows it is in Nidal... and urban adventure in Nidal could be pretty sweet. Having to hide from all the Kuthites...
JJ has talked about Dou-Bral/Zon-Kuthon info probably requiring an AP to reveal... maybe that's what he's hinting at.
Since Second Darkness is as old/older than Pathfinder CRB, it would be hard to argue that it's "too soon" to do a Drow AP. The fact that many feel that SD is at the bottom of the list as far as Favorite APs is even more reason to do a SD redux.
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List of Avistan countries.
Yes search results: Absalom, Andoran, Brevoy, Cheliax, Kings, Galt, Belkzen, Irrisen, Isger, Kyonin, Lastwall, Linnorm, Molthune, Nidal, Nirmathas, Numeria, Qadira, River, Taldor, Ustalav, Varisia, Worldwound
No search results: Druma, Mendev, Razmiran, Mammoth, Steaming, Hermea
James has done adventure paths in:
Varisia, Varisia, Cheliax, Garund, Varisia/Linnorm/Minkai, Varisia, Worldwound, Numeria
So the obvious one would be Varisia, but it was clearly ruled out, unless we're talking a more specific location within Varisia which I didn't check for.
It's interesting to note that JJ's APs have gone to Garund only once (Serpent's Skull). Does that mean he's not into Garund, or that he's been holding back? For the purposes of this post though I'm assuming the AP is in Avistan.
Judging by past record (Linnorm Kings, Worldwound, Numeria), JJ seems to have more of an affinity for the northern half of Avistan than the southern half. Most of the "no search results" countries are indeed in northern Avistan, so that doesn't help us winnow out much.
Druma: Southern Avistan, doesn't really have much of a hook IMO. I'd say low chance.
Mendev: Borders both Worldwound and Numeria, which were both JJ's previous APs. Does that mean that is JJ's corner and sandbox of Golarion for now? Has a strong hook in the crusades. Could fulfill the clue that JJ has been planting seeds. "People of" book could cover also Worldwound which didn't get its own Player Companion. Why didn't it? Were they playing the long game? I would give Mendev pretty good odds.
Razmiran: I'm ruling this one out straight away because I think it's reserved as somebody's playground who I can't remember right now.
Mammoth Lords: A decent hook -- though not as strong as Mendev's -- but may be disadvantaged by the fact that it would be tough to do a Player's Companion with Varisia, People of the North and Giantslayer's PC staking out a lot of the territory. I say iffy chances.
Steaming Sea/Hermea: They're right off the coast of Varisia, which is JJ's most often visited place. But they do seem a bit off to the side and not much buzz about them. Between the Steaming Sea and Hermea they might be able to field a "People of the Sea" Player Companion all by themselves. Not top chances but I wouldn't rule them out.
In order of likelihood, I'd say Mendev is definitely the most likely scenario in my mind. Steaming Sea and Hermea follow a little behind it. Then Realm of the Mammoth Lords I'd say ennnh, I dunno. And Druma I'd bet against it.
Mendev is my call.
As an aside, Sandpoint, Riddleport and Korvosa do have search results. Magnimar, however, does not...
Aside number two: Mendev is pretty screwed, isn't it? To the south, radiation and die. To the west, demons and die. To the north, freeze and die. It's a miracle they survive up there.
Since Second Darkness is as old/older than Pathfinder CRB, it would be hard to argue that it's "too soon" to do a Drow AP. The fact that many feel that SD is at the bottom of the list as far as Favorite APs is even more reason to do a SD redux.
i thought the problem with second darkness wasn't the Drow, but that the last two adventures were rail-roady and not that great, and the fact that the first one had nothing to do with the last five, i might be wrong tho:)
List of Avistan countries.
Yes search results: Absalom, Andoran, Brevoy, Cheliax, Kings, Galt, Belkzen, Irrisen, Isger, Kyonin, Lastwall, Linnorm, Molthune, Nidal, Nirmathas, Numeria, Qadira, River, Taldor, Ustalav, Varisia, Worldwound
No search results: Druma, Mendev, Razmiran, Mammoth, Steaming, Hermea
James has done adventure paths in:
Varisia, Varisia, Cheliax, Garund, Varisia/Linnorm/Minkai, Varisia, Worldwound, Numeria
So the obvious one would be Varisia, but it was clearly ruled out, unless we're talking a more specific location within Varisia which I didn't check for.
It's interesting to note that JJ's APs have gone to Garund only once (Serpent's Skull). Does that mean he's not into Garund, or that he's been holding back? For the purposes of this post though I'm assuming the AP is in Avistan.
Judging by past record (Linnorm Kings, Worldwound, Numeria), JJ seems to have more of an affinity for the northern half of Avistan than the southern half. Most of the "no search results" countries are indeed in northern Avistan, so that doesn't help us winnow out much.
Druma: Southern Avistan, doesn't really have much of a hook IMO. I'd say low chance.
Mendev: Borders both Worldwound and Numeria, which were both JJ's previous APs. Does that mean that is JJ's corner and sandbox of Golarion for now? Has a strong hook in the crusades. Could fulfill the clue that JJ has been planting seeds. "People of" book could cover also Worldwound which didn't get its own Player Companion. Why didn't it? Were they playing the long game? I would give Mendev pretty good odds.
Razmiran: I'm ruling this one out straight away because I think it's reserved as somebody's playground who I can't remember right now.
Mammoth Lords: A decent hook -- though not as strong as Mendev's -- but may be disadvantaged by the fact that it would be tough to do a Player's Companion with Varisia, People of the North and Giantslayer's PC staking out a lot of the territory. I say iffy chances.
Steaming Sea/Hermea: They're...
When I was saying earlier that James Jacobs' comments ruled out the Mwangi Expanse because Garund was mentioned earlier, he corrected me that nobody had guessed the EXACT location, meaning he was talking about the location in more specific terms. Those specific terms could be a town/city or a region within a country. So not all of those are necessarily ruled out (particularly the larger regions with multiple independent states such as Varisia.)
Since Second Darkness is as old/older than Pathfinder CRB, it would be hard to argue that it's "too soon" to do a Drow AP. The fact that many feel that SD is at the bottom of the list as far as Favorite APs is even more reason to do a SD redux.i thought the problem with second darkness wasn't the Drow, but that the last two adventures were rail-roady and not that great, and the fact that the first one had nothing to do with the last five, i might be wrong tho:)
Drow isn't the problem, but because the AP as a whole is disliked, few get to enjoy the awesomeness that is say, books 3 and 4
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Just to be whimsical, there is one nation that was colonized and yet turned out quite good and in fact became a world power for a while there.
England.
And for that matter, Germany.
Don't forget that historically, all of the inhabited world has seen invasions from various cultures, and settlement of conquered regions by the invaders who felt they were better suited and more civilized than the indigenous populations.
When you look at England and Germany, the primary factor that seems to be responsible for their growth into developed countries... is time after the colonization attempt. And in the case of Germany, an occupation by a world power that was paranoid of invasion by another world power, and built up its infrastructure and industries so it could help provide for its defense.
When you look at Golarion, there is a history of ancient societies colonizing other regions and then those empires falling. Taldor is just about the most recent (Cheliax is trying to recover from its stumble). But even those nations that are "advanced" are still nowhere near as stable as society is today among developed countries; then again, if there was a bunch of sentient species that could easily grow in strength to become a viable threat (orcs, goblins, and the like), then we probably would see the developed nations on our world in a state of flux.
Heh, the mention of Druma reminds me of a fun little conversation that was on the Campaign Setting forum a while back. It was either "conspiracies of Golarion" or "Who is secretly a veiled master". The Prophecies of Kalistrade were (mostly jokingly) guessed to be a plot of the veiled masters to discredit the gods and provide an alternative to worshiping them. Wouldn't that be neat if the snow-ball-in-hell's-chance that was the subject of the next AP?
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See... I thought the addition of Evangeline Lilly's character was one of the best parts of the movie. The stupid part, in my opinion, was the extended bumper pool sequence in the river with the barrels. Fortunately the movie's long enough that folks get plenty of what they DO like, regardless of what it was. ;-)You're both sourpusses. Both of those parts were awesome. The real stupid bit was the super stealthy obvious orcs in Lake Town.
I agree- Evangeline Lilly's character is great, and nice addition.
I'm not sure which was dumber- the overlong campy barrel-ride sequence, or the silly/stupid race through the mine by way of Lucasfilm Episode 3 "aseembly line" sequence.
Okay, here's some of the ideas that were propose earlier before that "practically right" statement:
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea/underwater
Andoran- Andoran Freedom Fighters/Eagle Knights- battling Chelaxian imperialists/slavers
Andoran (Darkmoon Vale)- The Night of the Silver Blood is explored. (The hobgoblin/werewolf alliance has never been fully explored)
Absalom/Diobel- finding some peace of Pathfinder Chronicles #5 reveals to the PCs a bit more than the Decemvirate wants you to know, and this leads into a whole messy mystery.
Brevoy- feuding noble houses
Darklands/drow-related- Golarion's Night Below?
Darklands- Journey to the Center of the Earth
The First World- a PF reenactment of the Fairy Queen
Five Kings Mountains- reclaiming a lost sky citadel or some such
Geb and Nex- delving into the hows and whys of their wars; high magic and necromancy.
Isger- The Goblinwars return
Nirmathas- fighting against Molthune aggressors; alternately defending the Fangwood from the Dread Blight
Varisia- Karzavon is brought back by the Brotherhood of Bones; involves something with Zon-Kuthon/Shadowplane; an article on where Dou Bral went in #100
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Okay, here's some of the ideas that were propose earlier before that "practically right" statement:
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea/underwater
I say this - Slavers with masters from beneath the waves - starts out as a conventional slaver campaign, then the hidden masters (aboleths) are revealed.
It's conventional yet it introduces an new environment/feature that is common with the AP - namely, adventuring underwater and all the troubles in running an underwater AP (at least part of it).
I suspect it's the Pathfinder Chronicles #5 plot.
I think we're going to get an urban adventure Council of Thieves-type adventure after Giantslayer. I'm betting it takes place in Absalom and will involve discovering the fate of Pathfinder Chronicle #5.
We know that the next AP will be "traditional fantasy," but I'm going to assume that the Paizo staff will also be looking to something that's traditional while also different enough from Giantslayer! to be really interesting.
There's a lot of stuff based around Absalom in Occult Mysteries. Some of that indirectly supports Emerald Spire, but a lot of the stuff there focuses on what's happening underneath the city. Specifically, it lets us know that there might be something in Pathfinder Chronicle #5 that relates to the Absalom lodge's underground holdings or some secret that the Decemvirate wants kept quiet.
My guess is the the first AP involves the PCs finding Chronicle #5 or some shard of information about it and then delving beneath the city. There are two organizations with known ties under Absalom, the Knights of the Eastern/Western Star and the Harbingers of Fate. That gives lots of different factions that have lots of intrigue and heavy roleplaying possibilities that would make an urban adventure fun to investigate.
Diobel was statted out recently in Towns of the Inner Sea so you have a good location for a side adventure that already has background material, obviating the need to write a Gazetteer.
Finally, Absalom and the Pathfinder Society are iconic locations and organizations that define the setting. AP #100 will come out during this run, so it makes sense to be somewhere iconic. Finally, we haven't seen anything on Absalom since the changeover from 3.5.
Just a theory. If I'm wrong, well, I might just have to write one for home though!
I find this the most fascinating of the lot. Note that Absalom and Diobel were guessed as locations. But they are on the island of KORTHOS, which would encompass more than just one town. Alternately, the town of ESCADAR on the Isle of Erran (the little one to the north of Korthos) could be the location if it's solely in one city.
What's interesting about this possibility is that the distribution of Pathfinder Chronicle #5 was suppressed by the Pathfinder Grand Lodge (all copies were destroyed). All copies except for one held in the Grand Lodge Repository in Absalom.
Both the Harbingers and the Knights of the Eastern Star look like interesting (if potentially bonkers) groups:
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Harbingers_of_Fate
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Knights_of_the_Eastern_Star
If you follow those links, you'll see that they may be interested in "rebooting" the Age of Aroden or bring back Azlant. One interesting tidbit: the Knights of the Eastern Star want to find a new heir to restore the lost glory of Azlant. (A successor or possibly a descendant of Aroden?) You can see what this looks like here, something a little bit DaVinci Codish, perhaps?
This would make a dynamite of an AP, you'd have themes dealing with-
-intrigue
-crazy cults
-the Pathfinder Society
-the Azlanti
-even echoes of Aroden in the potential new successor
It wouldn't be traditional fantasy in that it comes more from holy grail lore and urban intrigue/mystery genre stuff (that's mostly pure fantasy in its own way), but it's familiar because it's reminiscent of a certain book.
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Just to stir the pot of speculation a bit more, when I said that someone was so close that they were practically right, the poster in question pretty much had the elevator pitch of the plot (and the correct location in general).
I think it's Joshua's post.
If I remember correctly, Mr. Jacobs said elsewhere that the next AP would also be traditional, but did not specify traditional fantasy. Perhaps that was an allusion to gaining influence not from Dungeons & Dragons but perhaps the other powerhouse game that has been around forever, Call of Cthulhu. Perhaps we are getting our Dark Tapestry/Dominion of the Black AP finally. Something that harkens back to those epic campaigns Chaosium made for CoC. The seeds for this style of adventure have been sown in Dragon's Demand and Occult Mysteries and we all know how much of a CoC fan Mr. Jacobs is.
But wait, you say. Adam said the poster had the correct location in general, and there's no location listed.
But, Joshua added in a later post -- *just* before Adam's post -- the following:
I missed the PFS connection with the Mwangi Expanse. Perhaps we are going back to Garund...
The only thing I can really say about that however, is it was specified we are getting another traditional AP, and traditional usually implies some kind of medieval European-based fantasy in the vein of old-school D&D. This implies to me that a Mwangi AP may not be on the slate for the next AP.
I've been going through the posts and there are very few other posts that resemble an "elevator pitch", *and* include a broad location.
Some other possibles are:
That, or perhaps Slavelords of the Inner Sea? Slavelords and Kytons? A chain themed AP in time for Pathfinder Unchained? :)
Or something in the vein of Final Fantasy, an epic journey around the Inner Sea region.
Perhaps a new stab at rebelling against Cheliax?
Of course, my dream of Journey to the Centre of Golarion where PCs never see daylight and really get to know the Darklands would be great.
Or what about 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Pathfinder's first entirely under water campaign?
So...a Cthulhu campaign in the Sodden Lands, maybe? I could see those swamps being very creepy at night...sort of like the Dead Marshes...
Pinning down other locations
Journey to the Center of the Earth: This would most definitely take place in the Earthnavel. Like the book, it'd be a Lost World AP. Familiarity is obvious. (Not really traditional fantasy since it's classified as Sci-fi for the time.) Darklands would be a correct guess for proximal location, since it's under the Realm of the Mammoth Lords. This could be a potential contender for the next AP
The Night of Silver Blood/hobgoblins and werewolves in Andoran/Nightmoon Vale stuff would be in Olfden and surrounding environs, particularly the Arthfell Forest. This is probably a weak guess.
I think, considering the options above, the finding/stealing PF Chronicle #5 one would still be the best guess. It has a lot of potential build-up, and even if it's not the correct one, there could be any number of others. (For example, did that one Eando Kline try to suppress about the underground serpentfolk city get published? Did he take any chronicles with him when he defected from the Pathfinder Society?)
Kinda feel like the odd man out, since I did an entire Kingmaker campaign in my Caribbean setting where the players set up a colony on an island inhabited by drow and lizardfolk.I guess that's a step up from saying the island was inhabited only by cannibals or men with no heads and faces in their torsos.
Well, the lizardfolk did eat their dead. And one of the various tribes of drow were cannibals. But not all of them. There were 6 tribes that the players could have befriended if the game didn't die :)
But I suppose I don't see how Kingmaker is different from a colonization AP. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you guys mean about colonization. *shrug*
EDIT: Also, I should read the whole thread before posting, so probably should make this its own topic. Whoops. IGNORE ME!! :D
I would like to see an AP in Razmiran and/or Galt. Both are nations where a PCs need to be on their toes or everything goes south and fast. Instead of dungeon crawling and beating things with heavy and/or sharp objects you would have intrigue and the constant fear of getting caught while trying to accomplish something grander. Dethrone Razmir? Spy on the 'god-king' on behalf of a foreign power? Bring the bloody revolution to an end finally? Become the ruler after revolution? Make sure that everyone dies in the end?
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A bunch of cool stuff but this is the one I'm interested in
Darklands- Journey to the Center of the Earth
I really have my fingers crossed for this one, one of my favorite stories combined with my favorite RPG system in my favorite setting. It's entirely possible my heart would give out.
JJ also stated it is an AP he's been building towards for a while, and I only know of one or two plots.
Maybe he's doing a new Drow AP, Journey to the Center of the Earth or otherwise, and it will tie in Nocti(mind blank on how to spell it) becoming a full CN deity...
Does anyone else know any other plot seeds that JJ has weaved into APs or books?
Nirmathas- fighting against Molthune aggressors; alternately defending the Fangwood from the Dread Blight
This is one I think would be cool to have. For as little info as we have on it Nirmathas has a lot of promise for adventuring. And based on the hints given it does twig on the whole "traditional" setting, mostly rural, pastoral, with a dangerous/mysterious wood and an ever threatening enemy at the gate. Lot of mileage there.
This is one I think would be cool to have. For as little info as we have on it Nirmathas has a lot of promise for adventuring. And based on the hints given it does twig on the whole "traditional" setting, mostly rural, pastoral, with a dangerous/mysterious wood and an ever threatening enemy at the gate. Lot of mileage there.
Nirmathas- fighting against Molthune aggressors; alternately defending the Fangwood from the Dread Blight
I think this falls under the category of a War campaign, and unfortunately, JJ wants Mass Combat rules that integrate the character better before doing one that involves that, like a Cheliax/Andoran AP.
Personally, I'd like them to use the Troop units to simulate mass combat...
Well, we are getting the Unchained hardcover in spring which revises a bunch of systems, seems like an opportune time to revisit the mass combat rules as well...
Here's an interesting tidbit or two from a post I made to the "Who is a Veiled Master" thread in the Campaign Setting forum. Wouldn't it be nasty if the aboleths got ahold of the Scepter of Ages and used it to fly around time molding it to their whims? Might be interesting for the discussion on the Pathfinder Chronicle hypothesis.
Durvin Gest is perhaps the most famous of all Pathfinders and his exploits feature prominently in several of the earliest volumes of the Pathfinder Chronicles. He is best known for his exploration of Old Azlant, the destruction of the treacherous Lens of Galundari, and his commandeering of The Silken Purse and piloting it around the southern tip of Garund. Even centuries after his final disappearance in 4360 AR, Gest remains one of the most legendary names in Golarion and statues of him grace many of the Pathfinder Society's facilities, including a 20-foot likeness in Absalom's Grand Lodge.source here:http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Durvin_Gest
The Decemvirate recalled this volume and destroyed all circulating copies shortly after its publication. It is rumored to have contained details on the events leading to the final disappearance of Durvin Gest. The Repository of the Grand Lodge in Absalom holds the only known copysource here: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Pathfinder_Chronicles#Volume_5
In this volume, Durvin Gest light-heartedly discusses the Scepter of Ages and its powers. He also recounts its near loss to a Garundi bandit noblesource here:http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Pathfinder_Chronicles#Volume_6
The Scepter of Ages is a major artifact granting power to travel through time.source here: http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Scepter_of_Ages
Suspicion One or more of the Decemvirate are Veiled Masters (or are in their thrall). Report #5 contains some forbidden secret relating to the Scepter of Ages they didn't want passed on. Because of this, Gest was betrayed and eliminated and Pathfinder Chronicle #5 destroyed. Pathfinder Chronicles #6 is clearly a change in tone and reflects a piece of propaganda fabricated to dissuade people from investigating the Scepter of Ages (it's even numbered after the volume that's rumored to contain the details of his demise.) At least a few of the Veiled Masters...
What's an elevator pitch?
Why is it not August 14th yet!!!!
What's an elevator pitch?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevator_pitch
What's an elevator pitch?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevator_pitch
I feel enlightened. Thank you.
An Invasion AP.
The players start off at level 1 as their nation is invaded by either something from another world (like the Dominion of the Black), or by another nation (like Cheliax). They start off freeing their town from an occupation. Then as they grow in levels they start branching out, freeing other areas while working hard to protect the territory they've freed.
In essence they're the Resistance.
I'm not quite sure if the game would end with attacking the other nation or the head of the invading group (if DotB), or just driving them fully out of the nation and leaving it at that.
If I was right with a Call of Cthulhu inspired AP, I will be the happiest fanboy ever.Right there with you. Come on Aucturn! Papa needs a new pair of sabatons.
Whereas it's not Aucturn, if Jatembe is ever the subject of an AP, it's likely that Akiton will play a role in the AP. (Akiton has worms that walk, shuggoths, elder things, and wytchwyrds, among other things.)
I'm get the feeling they're not going to tell us either way until the official announcement.
They're kinda evil like that. ;)
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The closest thing to a full elevator pitch is Gladior's awesome musing here, which is a great foundation for an AP.
I tried the "one word search test" of Kortos and didn't find it mentioned in the thread yet, so it's very possible.
Dreaming Psion did post a little earlier earlier, but misspelled it "Korthos", which means it still wasn't coming up in a search just now.
Lots of possible places to go in this one, from the original lodge in Quantium, to the Darklands below Absalom. Techniclly this one could send people anywhere looking for lost fragments, so it has a great shot of being a tour of Avistan and Garund, which would be great to finally get in an AP - bouncing around everywhere getting little views into each locale.
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SINCE HE DOESNT MENTION A DATE ITS TODAY TODAY TODAYOoops!
Thursday August 14th.
:)
And I'll be there! In fact, I am going to like 7 Paizo seminars total, and I'm dragging two of my players with me to all of them. Kinda getting jazzed for Gen Con here. Plus my first foray or two into PFS. I rolled up three characters for it. Should be fun.
Sorry for the derail. None of my coworkers understand gamer stuff; so I have to gush somewhere. I'm a Paizo groupie....
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So the only real elevator pitches I'm seeing deal with a Dark Tapestry/Dominion of the Black theme. Specifically in Hermea, but it has been said that the location was a little off. Perhaps the next AP really will be the Call of Cthulhu inspired path.
I could be off the mark here and missed a post or two that give a good plot pitch. Thoughts?
I hope it doesn't deal with the Dominoin of the Black specifically.
I use the Dominion as a way to incorporate mindflayers in my homegame. Paizo ever actually spills the beans on what they are and it'll be a whole lot of information that's useless to me.