It states that not having Improved Trip will provoke an attack of opportunity whenever a character attempts to trip. Also, that you can make trip attempts as an attack of opportunity.
Scenario: Player gets dominated and has to run past the entire party to attack the healer in the back. Each player gets an attack of opportunity and they all choose to attempt to trip the fighter. Does the fighter get an attack of opportunity back?
Yes.
The fighter gets an AoO against them, if he has reach to them (so if they have reach weapons and he doesn't then he wont be able to make the AoO). Also, unless he has combat reflexes he will only get to make an AoO against one character. Not multiples.
But yes. In general, you can trip as an AoO and provoke an AoO for doing so if you don't have Improved Trip.
Strictly speaking you can always choose to make a trip as an AoO, even against a prone target standing up from trip. But you are right that you cannot "trip lock" an opponent. The developers ruled that the AoO occurs before the person has stood up, and so an attempt to trip a prone individual does not meaningfully affect the target. You could however do it, which is essentially nothing, if you choose to.
There are cases, I am sad to say, where you cannot use a Trip as an AoO; just as an aside.
Like trip locking. Tripping a guy as they try to stand up is a no no.
This is correct, but you can disarm, reposition, or sunder as an AoO as well.
According to the rules though, Attacks of Opportunity are when "a combatant in melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action". It also states that taking an Attack of Opportunity counts as a free action, and free actions do not provoke because they consume a very small amount of time and effort.
The way I see this, the person that runs past everyone is being reckless and letting their guard down. Thus it makes sense that one could easily stick their leg out and attempt to trip them because that person has opened up a window that is not otherwise available. In combat it is assumed that characters are constantly fighting and constantly aware of each other. The whole reason why tripping provokes without improved is because your opponent is actively aware of the movements you make, and can see it coming.
If both players had trip without improved, does it make sense that they could go back and forth several times until one is tripped? (Provided both have enough AoO through combat reflexes), and then of course continue his charge towards the healer in the back?
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There are cases, I am sad to say, where you cannot use a Trip as an AoO; just as an aside.
Like trip locking. Tripping a guy as they try to stand up is a no no.
Well, to clarify what you're saying: since the AoO occurs prior to the character standing up, using the AoO to trip won't do anything, since they're already prone, and the prone character will still stand up.
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According to the rules though, Attacks of Opportunity are when "a combatant in melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action". It also states that taking an Attack of Opportunity counts as a free action, and free actions do not provoke because they consume a very small amount of time and effort.
The way I see this, the person that runs past everyone is being reckless and letting their guard down. Thus it makes sense that one could easily stick their leg out and attempt to trip them because that person has opened up a window that is not otherwise available. In combat it is assumed that characters are constantly fighting and constantly aware of each other. The whole reason why tripping provokes without improved is because your opponent is actively aware of the movements you make, and can see it coming.
If both players had trip without improved, does it make sense that they could go back and forth several times until one is tripped? (Provided both have enough AoO through combat reflexes), and then of course continue his charge towards the healer in the back?
1) AoO are not free actions. The word "free" is not in reference to the free action, but instead in reference to the fact that it doesn't cost you anything (such as a loss of attack in your next turn, etc) to make that AoO.
2) Whether or not it makes sense in reality, AoO chains are possible, and the results of such a chain may or may not affect the outcome of the original event that started it.
According to the rules though, Attacks of Opportunity are when "a combatant in melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action". It also states that taking an Attack of Opportunity counts as a free action, and free actions do not provoke because they consume a very small amount of time and effort.
The way I see this, the person that runs past everyone is being reckless and letting their guard down. Thus it makes sense that one could easily stick their leg out and attempt to trip them because that person has opened up a window that is not otherwise available. In combat it is assumed that characters are constantly fighting and constantly aware of each other. The whole reason why tripping provokes without improved is because your opponent is actively aware of the movements you make, and can see it coming.
If both players had trip without improved, does it make sense that they could go back and forth several times until one is tripped? (Provided both have enough AoO through combat reflexes), and then of course continue his charge towards the healer in the back?
1) AoO are not free actions. The word "free" is not in reference to the free action, but instead in reference to the fact that it doesn't cost you anything (such as a loss of attack in your next turn, etc) to make that AoO.
2) Whether or not it makes sense in reality, AoO chains are possible, and the results of such a chain may or may not affect the outcome of the original event that started it.
"Some actions, when performed in a threatened square, provoke attacks of opportunity as you divert your attention from the battle." Your attention is diverted, where are you to take advantage of an AoO when your attention is elsewhere?
Please cite where the rules state that "AoO chains are possible"
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Please cite where the rules state that "AoO chains are possible"
Perhaps tomorrow when I can get onto my computer, instead of poking on my iPad (if someone else hasn't already answered).
Suffice it to say, there is nothing about provoking an AoO that would prevent you from making an AoO against an AoO made against you that, itself, provokes an AoO.
Please cite where the rules state that "AoO chains are possible"
Perhaps tomorrow when I can get onto my computer, instead of poking on my iPad (if someone else hasn't already answered).
Suffice it to say, there is nothing about provoking an AoO that would prevent you from making an AoO against an AoO made against you that, itself, provokes an AoO.
Perhaps I am just being stubborn. Though I would still like to know RAW vs RAI, specifically RAI.
I can't cite anything right now (but neither has the other side of this argument) but I am pretty sure AoO chains ARE RAI and RAW.
It's not a loophole, rules lawyering, or optimization.
Understand how Attacks of Opportunity function is just a basic part of the game.
Making a trip attack with Improved Trip provokes an AoO. If someone provokes an AoO from you (like moving out of a square you threaten) and you decide to trip them without Improved Trip, then you provoke an AoO for doing so.
What's so hard to understand about that?
If the other person attempts to disarm you without Improved Disarm he will provoke another AoO from you. Provided you have combat reflexes you could make the attack. It can be a bit silly at times. Being a more intelligent player and choosing not to perform actions that provoke can help avoid this situation.
However, if it perfectly valid via the rules, whether or not you like it or think it's munchkinism.
*Making a trip without Improved Trip provokes an AoO.
There are cases, I am sad to say, where you cannot use a Trip as an AoO; just as an aside.
Like trip locking. Tripping a guy as they try to stand up is a no no.
Actually trip locking does not work. You can't trip someone who is still prone, so it won't do any good to take the AoO. What you can do is ready an action to trip them as soon as they stand, to make them prone again.