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A good friend of mine if going to run a home game of PF, and I'm going to play a tabletop RPG for the first time since the '80s. Can I have some advice from people on how you think my first build looks.
I've read a bunch of guides on paladin, and this is what I've come up with to play.
Game details: Rise of the Runelords - full campaign
Group comp: Sorc, Ranger, Bard, Rogue, Cleric, Paladin (me). I'm planning on being the front line plate wearer, but want to go for primarily DPS and not sword and board.
Aasimar - Angelic Blood
Str: 16 (+2) = 18
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 13 (+2) = 15
Stat progression:
Lv 4: +1 Cha
Lv 8+: +1 Str all
Feats:
Lv 1: Fey Foundling
I just was reading a thread that included Fey Foundling. I've also read that at lvl 1 I'm going to be splatting the things I hit, and can always pick up offensive feats later on. Any thoughts on that?
Lv 3: Combat Reflexes
One of the reasons I went with the 14 dex, to pick up the extra 2 AoOs. Will I generally get a lot of AoOs? Enough to justify the feat? My intention is to get right into the mix, and be the tip of the spear in encounters.
Lv 5: Weapon Focus - Falchion
Lv 7: Power Attack
Lv 9: Critical Focus
Not sure about progression after this, but thinking of some form of Step Up, Strike Back, Cleave.
I might go with the Aasimar feats just because wings sound rad. Are there enough encounters where I could use wings, and maybe Death from Above to good advantage?
Skills:
Diplomacy
Sense Motive
Knowledge, Religion
Ride
Is crafting my own armor worth it?
Traits:
Missionary - for RP mostly, I wanted a reason to be going to Sandpoint
Reactionary - +2 init seems good
Do you see anything big I'm missing, or any advice on what I've put together?
Thanks for checking it out.
Congratulations! You're playing a really good class and one of the best races in the game. Have fun with that.
I'd switch your feats around so Power Attack is at 3rd level.
As for the Aasimar feats, I'm going to say yes, yes, absolutely yes. Unless your GM is deliberately putting your entire adventure into a bunch of small caves flight is always a useful thing to have if you can grab it. That feat is a large part of why the Aasimar is such a good race.
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Power attack- you need it WAY earlier. Like Level 3.
Crafting your own armor is never worth it.
Keep Combat Reflexes for 5, and at 7th take Lunge so you can make better use of your additional Attacks of Opportunity by extending your reach. Don't worry about armor class- that's why you have Lay on Hands. Your HP are as much a factor as your AC.
Do you intend to be mounted much? Or take the bonded mount? That's generally only advisable for smaller Paladins
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I'm planning on weapon bond.
I'll put a couple skill points into ride just to be able to have the trained skill in case we need to use mounts at some point. Maybe even just a single point.
I'm going to go mostly Diplomacy and Sense Motive for skills.
How does this look for a set of feats:
Lv 1: Fey Foundling
Lv 3: Power Attack
Lv 5: Combat Reflexes
Lv 7: Lunge
Lv 9: Angelic Blood
Lv 11: Angel Wings
Lv 13+ tbd
How does the ability score spread look?
No he doesn't need power attack that early. He has 18 strength so damage is no problem (in fact it's likely overkill). All power attack would do is make him miss more in exchange for wasted damage.
Level 5 is where I'd usually want it mind you.
Yes there is, 2h martials with high strength can one hit most mooks at low level.
If 3rd party feats are allowed, I'd suggest Mystic Healer. It's scaling healing improvement, and since it adds dice of hit points healed, it stacks with Fey Foundling. At 13th level, it would add 4d6+8 hit points to your swift action 6d6+12 Lay on Hands ability to heal yourself, for a total of 10d6+20. Or 4d6 to your 7d6 channel energies to heal your allies.
You can also use a reach weapon (glaive or something fancier) to get more AoOs, and use spiked gauntlets or spiked armor to deal with adjacent opponents. I'm going to try combining Power Attack, Pushing Assault [APG], Combat Reflexes, and Stand Still on my 4th level PCs this Monday (CR 2 hobgoblin fighter 3 NPCs). The PCs will leave threatened square, then be pushed back 5 feet by Pushing Assault AoO, and then the NPCs will 5 foot step back, requiring PCs to move 10 feet to melee, provoking more AoO.
Woah dude, when i was a new player i barely knew what a feat was and you are already using an modified advanced class (angelic blooded aasimar)
i don't think you really need that much help, like you are doing good this way, i would also recommend taking power attack earlier, is more useful than combat reflexes. Also recommend you Furious Focus, is a good feat. instead of weapon focus.
you might consider taking 1 level in Oracle, but well is just me that i like to optimize xD
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You don't need the Reactionary trait.
It's not right for RP anyway (an Aasimar Paladin was a coward before bullies, meh) but more importantly, you don't need to go first. If you did, you'd be pumping Dex and taking Improved Initiative.
High Initiative is great, but it's an area Paladins aren't great at, so I wouldn't bother. Let the Wizard go first.
As you have Fey Foundling, I would take Magical Knack. The RP ties together (you are a magic creature, brought up by same) and it gives you +2 Caster Level. Paladins start their spells late at -4 Caster Lvel, this will really help.
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I second the Magical Knack trait, but remember that Paladins and Rangers start with CL equal to class level -3, not -4. Having only an essential -1 CL makes your spells much stronger, especially when you first get access to them (like Divine Favor bonus scaling). Paladins are very sturdy, so you won't need to worry about getting Initiative, since rocket tagging won't take effect until the endgame.
I would suggest you don't bother with Combat Reflexes unless you plan to make use of Bodyguard, and/or Lunge unless you plan to use a Reach weapon. There are other, better feats you can take, like Greater Mercy or Extra Lay On Hands. If you choose to start out with a 13 Intelligence instead of 12 (only need 12 Dexterity if you aren't take Combat Reflexes and wear Full Plate), you can instead get this very nifty Unsanctioned Knowledge feat, allowing you access to several useful Bard spells, like Mirror Image, Touch of Gracelessness, Haste, and Freedom of Movement, and ties in great with being an outsider, having access to things nobody ever dreamed of obtaining.
Critical Focus does nothing for you; a +4 to Critical Confirmations and is not a pre-requisite for any useful feats. Replace it with Improved Critical with your weapon of choice (Falchion).
While a slight difference, I recommend the Nodachi over the Falchion; it has a higher max damage, it's easier to max out that damage, counts as both Slashing and Piercing damage, plus has the Brace quality, while still retaining the 18-20/X2 multiplier you really need. Of course, if your GM is opposed to Eastern Weapons, then Falchion is your best bet, sadly.
There is actually a Litany of Warding spell (2nd level) that grants you 2 additional Attacks of Opportunity for a round as a Swift Action, so you won't really need the 14 Dexterity if you have that.
Other than that, I think the rest you can do whatever you want with it. Good Luck!
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Lunge will not get you AoO's. It only enhances your reach on your turn.
Combat Reflexes is generally not worth it unless you have both a reach weapon or some extra manner of generating AoO's on your own. I would suggest Extra Lay On Hands. The best class for Combat Reflexes is a barbarian with Come and Get Me, or a Fighter with Combat Patrol up and running, or maybe an archer with Snap Shot. Pure melee wielder? Not so much.
I actually suggest you go with a longsword build, shield optional (just use a buckler). If you don't need the AC, 2h the longsword. If you do, your sword and board is ready and available. It's good to have options. If you can wrangle a free katana proficiency from your DM, that would actually be perfect.
At higher levels you may want to take Unsanctioned Knowledge for putting non-paladin spells on your list...barkskin is a favorite for some.
You can also start taking Extra Mercies and building towards Ultimate Mercy (Raise Dead with no material comp cost!).
Also, if you're doing an Oathbound Paladin for extra smites, extra lay on hands is quite helpful in generating more smites for you.
As they said above, Power Attack is your go to all around damage dealer, you'll want it at 3. It dovetails nicely with the extra TH from your Smite.
Critical Focus is likely not necessary. You have better things to devote feats to then more crits...that's a fighter's job. Grab some extra mercies for condition removal.
Angelic Blood and Angelic Wings are a feat tax for flight, but flavorful. If you like them, go for it!
Your stat spread is fine. Remember to buy Charisma boosters as you go up in level, too. Your bonuses to saves is what makes you the tank of the team.
==Aelryinth
Angelic Blood is a feat tax, Angel Wings suck for a character in armor (20' with Poor maneuverability).
The statline looks good, but bear in mind that unless you plan to wear Mithril Full Plate, you're better off with 12 Dex / 14 Int. Unsanctioned Knowledge can be very good, and Paladins can always use more Skill Points.
Here's the feat breakdown for the Intimidate build that I always suggest in Paladin threads. I'm not saying it's the greatest Paladin ever, but it's a lot of fun.
Lv 1: Fey Foundling
Lv 3: Power Attack
Lv 5: Furious Focus
Lv 7: Cornugon Smash
Lv 9: Intimidating Prowess
Lv 11: Dreadful Carnage
Put a Cruel enhancement on your weapon and go to town. Things like Cruel Weapon and Dreadful Carnage can always be refluffed as Wrathful Weapon and Cower Before The Righteous (for example).
Honestly, I would personally drop the strength to 15 (17), and increase the charisma to 14 (16) and the intelligence to 13. It will hurt a bit for the first three levels, I admit, but it's much better in the long run. Then again, I think that's pretty unorthodox advice.
The more mainstream thing to do, also better than your current build, is to drop Dex to 12, and pump charisma to 14(16) and intelligence to 13. You'll be wearing Full Plate for a while before you can get Mithral, meaning you'll not benefit much beyond +1 dex.
Thirding trading out Reactionary for Magical Knack as well.
OR, you can drop Wisdom to 8 and increase charisma to 14 (16). That won't change your will save, and will improve everything else.
Agree that you don't need to start with more then a 12 Dex. You're not a fighter, you're not going to get reduced ACP as a class feature, and when you finally get mithral armor, you can pick up a +4 Dex boost to make use of it.
You don't need a high Wis. Fighters need a high Wis. You have a good Will save and Cha to all saves. Dump the Wis to 8 and raise Cha. The swap to 14 makes it a wash on Will and +1 to all other saves, for instance.
Intelligence is completely up to you. Make sure it's an even number unless you plan to put a point into it.
==Aelryinth
Putting all my thoughts together, I would consider the following:
Str: 17 (+2) = 19
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 8
Cha: 14 (+2) = 16
All points into strength. If you want to be smarter, then keep the Strength at 16 (18) and bump int to 14 instead of 12.
EDIT: Or even consider dropping wisdom all the way to 7, pumping charisma to 15 (17), and putting your first stat point there. I'm not sure which I would go with, honestly. Probably Str 16(18) Dex 12 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 7 Cha 15(17). First point into charisma, and then everything into strength.
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Cool. Do have fun. You are very clued up already. Paladins are a super fun class because they are quite simple but involve lots of RP and you have the fantastic Smite Evil which you will love.
One more thing - as an Angel Aasimar, remember your Alter Self SLA 1/day. It can do things like give you some racial abilities like the Aquatic subtype but it's also useful for disguise (with your high Cha) and most importantly, it gives you +2 to Str. When you are fighting the boss at the end of the day, do a dramatic power-up before smiting him.
An SLA? Hah. He can take Arcane Strike!...
==Aelryinth
You don't need the Reactionary trait.
It's not right for RP anyway (an Aasimar Paladin was a coward before bullies, meh) but more importantly, you don't need to go first. If you did, you'd be pumping Dex and taking Improved Initiative.
High Initiative is great, but it's an area Paladins aren't great at, so I wouldn't bother. Let the Wizard go first.
As you have Fey Foundling, I would take Magical Knack. The RP ties together (you are a magic creature, brought up by same) and it gives you +2 Caster Level. Paladins start their spells late at -4 Caster Lvel, this will really help.
Or, you could take Sandpoint Faithful instead of Fey Foundling
"As a faithful adherent of Abadar, Desna, Erastil, Gozreh, Sarenrae, or Shelyn, you’ve come to the Swallowtail Festival to celebrate the consecration of Sandpoint Cathedral. You gain a silver holy symbol of your chosen deity, and so long as you worship that deity and openly wear his or her symbol, you regain +1 additional hit point every time you receive magical healing."Not as good, but only a trait, not a feat.
There's also Dim Seer aka Underbridge Dweller Benefit: "You gain a +2 trait bonus on Perception checks in dim light, and Perception is always a class skill for you."
Do NOT dump Wisdom. This is a very bad idea.
Yes, at 2nd level you get a nice boost to saves. But if you blow a Will save, you are often out of a combat. Worse, later, you could turn against your party.
Not to mention Perception is THE most used and important skill in the game, and Sense Motive is pretty good too.
Some months ago a new player took the advice and dumped WIS for his Paladin. It turned out very poorly, spending a whole battle asleep, never making a Perc roll, and getting conned due to a bad SM skill.
The eyes and ears of the city trait can help a bit with perception, although I personally dislike (heavily) dumping stats too, at least in home games.
The eyes and ears of the city trait can help a bit with perception, although I personally dislike dumping stats too, at least in home games.
You can only be LN for that Trait (and it's linked to Abadar0. Underbridge Dweller is better.
Abadar can have Paladins if Eyes & Ears of the City is a necessity, though I have no idea how they would work in practice.
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Do NOT dump Wisdom. This is a very bad idea.
Yes, at 2nd level you get a nice boost to saves. But if you blow a Will save, you are often out of a combat. Worse, later, you could turn against your party.
Not to mention Perception is THE most used and important skill in the game, and Sense Motive is pretty good too.
Some months ago a new player took the advice and dumped WIS for his Paladin. It turned out very poorly, spending a whole battle asleep, never making a Perc roll, and getting conned due to a bad SM skill.
Different strokes. I respect your years of gaming, but that scenario hasn't been my experience.
My current Paladin is an idiot. She's very beautiful (Cha 18 at first level, super charming, all that nonsense) but is clueless about how to deal with the world (Wis 8). She doesn't have a clue at certain things, that is why we have an adventuring party. The Ranger does the Perception stuff, and she's never failed a Will save yet. Not when it counted, at least. She doesn't need initiative, she just charges in with her mega sword after the rest of her team has pointed her in the right direction.
Paladins are a great class, but trying to tick all boxes is a waste of time. Things like Perception and Initiative are for other party members.
DrDeth has been playing since the '70s and I defer to his knowledge having only played since the late'80s but Wisdom is a dump stat for Paladins.
You can dump Wisdom in a couple of RP ways. One is religious fundamentalism; not having the empathy or imagination to consider anything other than Iomedae is the one true path. The other way - and much more fun - is to make her parsimonious in consideration of other peoples' cares and concerns. She wants to do the right thing all the time, she's super hot with maxed Diplomacy, it just seldom occurs to her that other people wouldn't want to be nice. Be nice, use decent hair care products, smite evil things until they are deleted from all records - it isn't complicated.
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Going to be honest for rise of the runelords.
First: take the feat big game hunter at either 7 or 9. I recommend at 7. At some point this feat will be online for 85% of combat and is a huge boon. If your DM offers it as a free starting featlike the handbook suggests I would pick it up. You wanted more damage this will help you hit harder and better.
Second: Figure out if your DM offers more open shopping and supplying or if he is going to be using the drops and make It difficult to find other magic items. You will find all of 1 falchion all6 books. You will find more ransuers, glaives. A few nice longswords as well. As far as buying gear save money by not buying a cloak of resistance as plenty will drop.
3rd: Take the mercy for blindness asap. Carry pots and scrolls for it.
4th: I personally like the trait Dangerously curious. UMD is a godly skill for a paladin to have. Scrolls of fly, mirror image, overland flight, lead blades, false life, defending bone, true seeing, the options are many. This can also take the place of angel line of feats. They truly are bad.
5th: combat reflexes bad...the enemies won't provide you many they are smart. They are also powerful and will just power through you later. If your DM allows you to buy gear you want see if the rogue will take the butterfly sting feat and grab a ×4 weapon and abuse the combo. A critical smite on a ×4 weapon will put most things in the dirt quick. Which a strong offense is the best defense. If they are dead they cant hurt you or your party.
6: The poor sorc will wish he rolled a INT caster for this campaign. Wizards get extra role play this AP. It is the wizard campaign.