In this case ZA is trying to shoot at Z3 and he has a seeking crossbow.
Can he do it?
Basically I want to know if he can shoot around corners.
Personally I don't think so.
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In your example, Z3 isn't really 'around the corner' in so much as being 'at the corner'. Z3 would normally have 20% Concealment and Cover (+4 AC) from ZA. Because of the 'Seeking' feature on the crossbow, the 20% concealment is negated, but ZA can still hit Z3.
If Z3 was one space to the left, he could not be hit with the Seeking crossbow.
In the example ZA has line of effect on Z3, that is, a line can be drawn from at least one corner of ZA's square to a corner of Z3's square without passing through a solid barrier. Z3 does not have total cover relative to ZA, and ZA can attack Z3 with a ranged weapon (Seeking is not required.) Z3 does have cover, of course, providing a +4 to AC, but that's it.
In order for a creature to have concealment, the line between squares has to pass through a square containing some feature that provides concealment. Concealment is usually granted by something that would hinder sight, but not stop an arrow. Fog, bushes, leaves, smoke, etc. these things grant concealment. Solid barriers, like walls, provide cover not concealment.
In the example, I can't be sure since I don't have a key to the map, but it doesn't look like there's anything that would provide concealment for Z3. Walls and other creatures, again, provide cover not concealment. Z3 has cover, but not concealment.
A Seeking Crossbow negates miss chance, but it doesn't do anything to negate cover, so not only could ZA shoot Z3 with a non-Seeking Crossbow, the Seeking ability wouldn't actually provide any benefit in this instance.
Summoner is the target subject to a miss chance such as from blur or displacement? Then the bow ignores it. Cover and seeking do not interact at all.
Wait, I thought Seeking couldn't be put on ranged weapons, only ammunition. Seeking doesn't have the subscript that allows a ranged weapon to bestow the property on its ammunition.
"This special ability can only be placed on ranged weapons."
So, the subscript missing from the chart is a typo?
Don't know but the quote I posted was from the PRD. In cases like this, I always go with the text over the chart.
The player would need the feat Improved Precise Shot to negate the cover. Seeking only negates a miss chance (like the 20% from blur, etc.)
To clarify this statement, seeking would also negate the miss chance from concealment, which is different from cover. Your enemy has cover (+4 AC, no miss chance) but probably not concealment.
there seems to be alot of confusion about the whole concealment thing. To clarify In normal combat the Seeking crossbow does nothing. In most cases when you are firing with a ranged weapon all you are dealing with is Cover.
Seeking has NO EFFECt on cover.
Seeking does have an effect on Blur, displacement, poor lighting conditions, fog etc.
However, IF you are a Zen archer that has the ability to fire around corners, Seeking would negate the miss chance for this.
to repeat the ONLY thing that maters for Seeking in most cases is CONCEALMENT
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So, the subscript missing from the chart is a typo?According to John Compton, pretty much:
Linkified
Ah, thank you for that. I wasn't a part of that discussion.
Do you have any cite for this? I would think that walls provide both cover and concealment, not just cover, and something like bushes provide only concealment.
In order for a creature to have concealment, the line between squares has to pass through a square containing some feature that provides concealment. Concealment is usually granted by something that would hinder sight, but not stop an arrow. Fog, bushes, leaves, smoke, etc. these things grant concealment. Solid barriers, like walls, provide cover not concealment..
Do you have a cite that walls actually provide either?
The only things that provide cover or concealment are the things the GM or the adventure say provide cover plus a few things from the Environment chapter.Cover and Concealment are military terms. Basically, Cover is anything that will stop a bullet; Concealment is anything that will conceal your position but won't stop a bullet. In absence of game definitions, use the actual definitions
In military terms a bush provides concealment. In game terms it can provide cover(GM discretion), but it does not provide concealment.
In military terms a bush provides concealment. In game terms it can provide cover(GM discretion), but it does not provide concealment.
Did you mistype? Undergrowth, and specifically bushes, are one of the few examples given in the CRB of concealment.
In military terms a bush provides concealment. In game terms it can provide cover(GM discretion), but it does not provide concealment.Did you mistype? Undergrowth, and specifically bushes, are one of the few examples given in the CRB of concealment.
No. I did not mistype. Concealment provides miss chance. A bush can provide cover but the bonus is up to the GM, so that would be cover. I typed "bush" in the combat chapter and did not see it. Could you provide a quote.