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I played a game with new players at level 1. Other players were learning the rules so I made a 20 point Paladin so he could be brave at the front, protect the others, lead by example etc. GM also told me we would find a wand of CLW at some point.
All fine until game time when GM decided we must all roll 3d6 for stats instead. I also couldn't change class.
These were my rolls:
STR: 12 DEX: 11 CON: 11 INT: 9 WIS: 8 CHA: 11
2 point equivalent. And most of it was on useless 11s.
I did what I could, put 2 Human points into Str so he could at least hit things, I took Fast learner so he had a vital HP and a second SP, and away we went.
It was actually quite fun, thankfully becuase of the new guys. They needed advice so monsters were not too efficient. I played as a crappy Fighter with Detect Evil and the only one in the party with Knowledge Religion.
In conclusion, it can be done and the game was fun and I thank the GM.
Should it be done though? Absolutely not. Playing Gygax style cannon-fodder commoners is fun for a one-shot, but they would not work in a normal game. For example, my guy would not function after level 1 with 11 Cha. No Divine Grace, Smite Evil doesn't hit, no spells, etc.
Pathfinder has class features which require minimum 16s to function. They are not set in stone like in AD&D, but they are there all the same. The most obvious one being minimum casting stat to cast spells of a particular level.
Also, it was quite fun to play a humble squire who wanted to be a Paladin (but would never make the grade) but I wouldn't want to do it for more than one session.
It's clear from this experience that PF is a game about superheroes. Even 15 points is a massive boost over commoners, and class abilities - from spells to rage to sneak attack to bloodlines - are nowhere near an ordinary person's experience, nor do the mechanics support them. I beleive the designers have no intention of making them like muggles. My experience has cemented in my mind the idea that Pathfinder is an extremely high-fantasy game and the PCs are best off reflecting that design decision.
(BTW next week I am playing a 25 point gestalt game which will come as welcome relief)
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Wow. 3d6 straight down, pick your race and class before you roll? That's super harsh. Even old school Basic D&D let you roll before you picked a class. 1e already had 4d6 drop lowest arrange to taste, and still you rolled that before picking class.
Doesn't Fast Learner require a 13 Int? Not that it really matters you could have gone with Toughness for nearly the same effect.
I guess it could have been worse. You could have rolled a 5 or something for Str and been stuck with it.
I general PC stats don't need to be as high as many people think - I'm in a group where we rolled stats and the party paladin managed to roll a 7 point buy. 12 Str, 14 Cha, everything else a 10. He survived all the way through.
Now we've modified our stat generation - you can either take 15 point buy, or roll 4d6 drop lowest, but reroll if you get less than 10 PB or more than 20. We use a computer program to roll so it doesn't take forever.
Edit: Dungeon Crawl Classics uses the "3d6 straight down" method, but it has you make 4 PCs at once with the expectation that the cruddy ones will die...
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Choosing class and then rolling stats definitely sounds like a bad idea.
But it was fun for one session. What makes you assume that it would stop being fun next session? Smite Evil would still give bonuses. By level four you could take +1 to Charisma, allowing you to cast level 2 spells in the future - and a headband of charisma would increase it further.
I've been playing a '3d6 stats in order' game and there is a fairly high chance of getting at least one mental stat good enough to play a useful caster, or a good enough physical stat to be a martial. It's only the occasional player who gets negative-point-buy stats who has trouble contributing.
Eventually we decided to boost our PCs to 15-point buy - it allows the GM to run regular CR enemies without slaughtering us - but the fun level doesn't automatically increase much, since fun mainly comes from gaming with fun people.
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You're right that certain powers would be very ineffectual in a long term game but I can see that 4 shlub characters, in the right classes, could be a lot of fun long term.
It might be a fun experiment. Instead of rolling up a character, just roll 1d6 +1; this is the amount of your point buy. Make your character, pick race and class along the way, and you're off to the races. Dump statting would be allowed.
I could see your party ending up as:
A dwarf cleric
A human fighter or barbarian
A Halfling rogue
A half-elf wizard
Between you, with clever use of traits and skill points you might have all the monster knowledges covered, a little bit of survival, a "party face" for gathering info and some utility skills. You'd also have a well rounded combat unit with a gentle smattering of ranged, ranged touch and melee attacks enough to survive roughly 3-5 combats a day at first level.
As the game went on your GM would have to accommodate your lower stats but this could be accomplished by adding in consumable stat-boosters in treasure hordes, keeping monsters' tactics less than optimal and what not. Sure, you'd run from some fights but that's even true in some jacked up parties too.
If your GM had that kind of game in mind, these characters would do fine. If however you favored more unique PC builds or the GM was running a particularly lethal AP or homebrew, this would become a slog really fast. Could it be fun though? Maybe.
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Picking your class before rolling does sound needlessly tough, but I think you should have put your +2 in Charisma "for the long term". Figure, you'd be within easy reach of Cha 14. Divine Grace would be nice. Take Oath of Vengeance and start Smiting everything in sight. The DM would probably say you're overpowered and need to be nerfed.
I played an entire 14 level campaign with something like 5 or 10 point buy back in 3.5. The DM also put lots of time in between adventures so that PCs would age and lose physical stats. Some folks couldn't stand it. I tried to rebel against the DM's complaints that my last PC was overpowered by playing a Bard, only I found out that I actually really enjoy playing Bards...though they're actually a bit more fun when they aren't limited to 8 Str like that one...
A DM for an upcoming game gave the group a choice of 15 point buy or rolling 3d6 in order and "adding" 12 point buy on top of it. As stat rolling addicts everybody went for the 3d6 plus 12 points, and it turned out pretty ugly in most cases. The guy with the 3 Con Alchemist (I think he actually bought it up to 7) rarely shows up anyhow, but the Dex13, Cha15 Bard seems a little bitter since he wanted to play a high Dex Rogue (which seems like it would be easy enough as a goblin). If he had taken the point buy he easily could have had a Dex in the 18-20 range, but the lure of the dice is too strong. It seems like players dream of rolling high and other folks rolling low or sometimes just of rolling a really high or low stat to make their PC sillier.
No thanks.
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No thanks.
Oh indeed, just say no. I included my anecdote because it was an example from game experience, not theory. Had it not been a one-shot and with new players I doubt it would be fun.
Mark Hoover's 'shlub' idea is workable but it is noticeably more powerful than my Joe Average. Or commoners in general. This reinforces my suggestion that PF is a game where the PCs are superheroes compared to the hoi-polloi.
And I like anecdotes and playtests. I haven't rolled ability scores in years, and haven't done 3d6 in order since 1987 (ack!), but I would say no to those rolls and re-roll them, with or without GM blessing.
How about no...
What happens if you pick Wizard and you end up with a 10 Int? I guess your may as well commit seppuku now because your next to useless...
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Hardly, with 10 Int you can cast cantrips, use school powers, and still *act* as well as most others.
Should it be done though? Absolutely not. Playing Gygax style cannon-fodder commoners is fun for a one-shot, but they would not work in a normal game. For example, my guy would not function after level 1 with 11 Cha. No Divine Grace, Smite Evil doesn't hit, no spells, etc.
Pathfinder has class features which require minimum 16s to function. They are not set in stone like in AD&D, but they are there all the same. The most obvious one being minimum casting stat to cast spells of a particular level.
You only need a 13 starting stat as a wizard or cleric to avoid missing out on casting spells up to 11th level (with stat bumps), by which you should have a headband (+2 is enough). Heck,not all my PFS characters even have a 16 at all.
Edit: Neat David... Ooo... New rolling method, 4d6 drop one, low 3 times and high 3 times, your choice while rolling.