Is there way to get the requisite 25.000 gps diamond dust needed to cast the empowered(not the metamagic) miracle, other than rely on the market? I'm not talking about adventuring, striking deals with dwarves, or buying them from insanely rich gemcutters or whatnot.
What I want to know is if there is a way to take 25.000 gp and turn it into 25.000 gps worth of diamond? Not looking for blood-money shenanigans or anything related to saving money on the transaction, merely the transformation of cash into what I need.
Thanks in advance :)
-Nearyn
I didn't think Polymorph any Object could be used to transform objects of any value?
-Nearyn
No worries :) Thanks for your input. If you can think of another way, I'd be glad to hear of it.
-Nearyn
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Is there way to get the requisite 25.000 gps diamond dust needed to cast the empowered(not the metamagic) miracle, other than rely on the market? I'm not talking about adventuring, striking deals with dwarves, or buying them from insanely rich gemcutters or whatnot.
What I want to know is if there is a way to take 25.000 gp and turn it into 25.000 gps worth of diamond? Not looking for blood-money shenanigans or anything related to saving money on the transaction, merely the transformation of cash into what I need.
Thanks in advance :)
-Nearyn
Is your GM trying to restrict diamond dust for some reason? As a GM I would consider allowing a regular miracle to either transform the gold or allow access to purchase it. If you have access to 9th level spells issues like these should fairly trivial. As you said you are not trying to milk the system so I'm not sure what the issue is.
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Purchase a speck of diamond from a friend for 25000 gp.
You now have 25000 gp worth of diamond dust.
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Is your GM trying to restrict diamond dust for some reason? As a GM I would consider allowing a regular miracle to either transform the gold or allow access to purchase it. If you have access to 9th level spells issues like these should fairly trivial. As you said you are not trying to milk the system so I'm not sure what the issue is.Is there way to get the requisite 25.000 gps diamond dust needed to cast the empowered(not the metamagic) miracle, other than rely on the market? I'm not talking about adventuring, striking deals with dwarves, or buying them from insanely rich gemcutters or whatnot.
What I want to know is if there is a way to take 25.000 gp and turn it into 25.000 gps worth of diamond? Not looking for blood-money shenanigans or anything related to saving money on the transaction, merely the transformation of cash into what I need.
Thanks in advance :)
-Nearyn
This is a good point. If your GM is restricting access, then any advice we give will likely be shot down if your GM wants to make it a quest item.
@The_Hanged_Man: Oh no, not at all. In fact, the only cleric I'm presently playing is level 4. And I've got no reason to think my GM will restrict DD when it becomes relevant. I asked because I wanted to see if there were ways I could make it/aquire it regardless of local supply :)
@icehawk333: That made me crack up. Good job xD
-Nearyn
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@The_Hanged_Man: Oh no, not at all. In fact, the only cleric I'm presently playing is level 4. And I've got no reason to think my GM will restrict DD when it becomes relevant. I asked because I wanted to see if there were ways I could make it/aquire it regardless of local supply :)
@icehawk333: That made me crack up. Good job xD
-Nearyn
It won't be a problem. Things like teleport and high level divination magic make finding and getting to a fairly basic commodity a non-issue as long as the GM isn't trying to prevent it for some reason.
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Purchase a speck of diamond from a friend for 25000 gp.
You now have 25000 gp worth of diamond dust.
Funny thing is this is Technically correct.
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Funny thing is this is Technically correct.Purchase a speck of diamond from a friend for 25000 gp.
You now have 25000 gp worth of diamond dust.
And if the speck is too large, hit it with a hammer.
Funny thing is this is Technically correct.Purchase a speck of diamond from a friend for 25000 gp.
You now have 25000 gp worth of diamond dust.
Which is what always drives me nuts about the whole "diamond dust worth x", "rubies worth x", etc. etc. It makes no sense to me and ruins a certain sense of verisimilitude.
I think the components should be based on "x carats of diamonds" or "x carats of rubies". The value of a carat can fluctuate due to market conditions, rarity, etc, but the DM should never set it below a minimum requirement for the spell (unless he has a good reason to).
So, say one carat of diamonds is worth 1000 gp. You need 25 carats for the Miracle spell. But, lets say diamonds are in short supply - and the average going rate for a carat is 1500 gp. Well, then that Miracle spell is going to cost you more. Conversely, if there is a glut of diamonds on the market, maybe it might cost you less (!). And the DM gets to be the arbiter of what that cost is going to be.
It does require the DM to change up treasure a bit - so, instead of getting 1000 gp worth of diamonds as treasure, you get a 1 carat diamond.
Also, mining companies should be stinking rich with all the spellcasters depleting the non-renewable resources (unless you are mining the elemental plane of earth, I suppose).
Funny thing is this is Technically correct.Purchase a speck of diamond from a friend for 25000 gp.
You now have 25000 gp worth of diamond dust.
Which is what always drives me nuts about the whole "diamond dust worth x", "rubies worth x", etc. etc. It makes no sense to me and ruins a certain sense of verisimilitude.
I think the components should be based on "x carats of diamonds" or "x carats of rubies". The value of a carat can fluctuate due to market conditions, rarity, etc, but the DM should never set it below a minimum requirement for the spell (unless he has a good reason to).
So, say one carat of diamonds is worth 1000 gp.
Well, this creates its own problems of verisimilitude. Diamonds and other precious gems aren't valued per carat. Aside from the fact that gem quality is a key issue (a flawless diamond is worth a lot more than one with a noticeable flaw, and even color has an effect), a two carat diamond is worth substantially more than twice what two similar one-carat diamonds would be worth.
Case in point: You need 25 carats for the Miracle spell.
I can buy diamonds at -- literally -- 4 cents (US) per carat. So that's a dollar.
Now try giving your girlfriend a dollar's worth of sandpaper-quality diamonds and you'll see why I can get them so cheaply.
I think the notion of diamond dust worth x is rather silly, since diamond dust is practically valueless -- but the idea that a ruby that is brightly colored, well-cut, flawless, &c is more magically powerful makes sense. So I need at least 500gp worth of gem quality in order to power my magical spell.
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Funny thing is this is Technically correct.Purchase a speck of diamond from a friend for 25000 gp.
You now have 25000 gp worth of diamond dust.
It just goes to show that to effect real change in the world, you need money. :P
I just went to see if I could find a list price for a bucket of diamond powder, but no luck. None of the places that sell it will give me a price.
it's not necessarily a case of a GM restricting access.. The OP may want an answer for when he's out in a desert or in the middle of a jungle, places which generally have a dearth of marketplaces... or Magic Marts.
If you have access to 9th level spells, you have access to teleport, and place is no longer an issue.
Goodness, you don't even need to teleport yourself. Just summon something (like a ghaele) and ask it to go shopping for you.
Funny thing is this is Technically correct.Purchase a speck of diamond from a friend for 25000 gp.
You now have 25000 gp worth of diamond dust.
Which is what always drives me nuts about the whole "diamond dust worth x", "rubies worth x", etc. etc. It makes no sense to me and ruins a certain sense of verisimilitude.
I think the components should be based on "x carats of diamonds" or "x carats of rubies". The value of a carat can fluctuate due to market conditions, rarity, etc, but the DM should never set it below a minimum requirement for the spell (unless he has a good reason to).
So, say one carat of diamonds is worth 1000 gp.
Well, this creates its own problems of verisimilitude. Diamonds and other precious gems aren't valued per carat. Aside from the fact that gem quality is a key issue (a flawless diamond is worth a lot more than one with a noticeable flaw, and even color has an effect), a two carat diamond is worth substantially more than twice what two similar one-carat diamonds would be worth.
Case in point: You need 25 carats for the Miracle spell.I can buy diamonds at -- literally -- 4 cents (US) per carat. So that's a dollar.
Now try giving your girlfriend a dollar's worth of sandpaper-quality diamonds and you'll see why I can get them so cheaply.
I think the notion of diamond dust worth x is rather silly, since diamond dust is practically valueless -- but the idea that a ruby that is brightly colored, well-cut, flawless, &c is more magically powerful makes sense. So I need at least 500gp worth of gem quality in order to power my magical spell.
Good points, true enough. Obviously the game dynamic is meant to make those spells harder to cast, due to cost and supposed rarity of the material component.
From more practical perspectives, I think just making it 25k in "rare" substances to cast a spell (but not so rare that you can't find them) - essentially putting just a GP cost on it - might be more reasonable. Then treat the material components availability the same way you'd treat a magic item - small settlements just won't have the necessary stuff to cast the spell...
Just tossing ideas out and musing out loud...
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it's not necessarily a case of a GM restricting access.. The OP may want an answer for when he's out in a desert or in the middle of a jungle, places which generally have a dearth of marketplaces... or Magic Marts.
If you have access to 9th level spells, you have access to teleport, and place is no longer an issue.
Goodness, you don't even need to teleport yourself. Just summon something (like a ghaele) and ask it to go shopping for you.
Two possible problems.
1. Most Divine characters (the ones that would be casting miracle) don't have access to teleport (and keep in mind that if the spell is being run properly, you're rolling for mishap on BOTH legs of the trip.)
2. The ghaele will be expecting something for it's services.
Miracle can replicate any non-cleric spell up to 7th level without needing the diamond. So Greater teleport is no problem.
Miracle can replicate any non-cleric spell up to 7th level without needing the diamond. So Greater teleport is no problem.
it's not necessarily a case of a GM restricting access.. The OP may want an answer for when he's out in a desert or in the middle of a jungle, places which generally have a dearth of marketplaces... or Magic Marts.
If you have access to 9th level spells, you have access to teleport, and place is no longer an issue.
Goodness, you don't even need to teleport yourself. Just summon something (like a ghaele) and ask it to go shopping for you.
Two possible problems.
1. Most Divine characters (the ones that would be casting miracle) don't have access to teleport (and keep in mind that if the spell is being run properly, you're rolling for mishap on BOTH legs of the trip.)
2. The ghaele will be expecting something for it's services.
But if u have the dust then there is no need for the teleport.
Summoned creatures are not capable of teleportation among with a few other abilities Pathfinder restricts, as I recall.
Myself, I read the "X worth of gems" clause as "gems worth X gold to a fair jeweler", not "gems you paid X gold for." It works to preserve realism.
Did you just double the cost of the spell?
No? Gems are trade goods and/or currency. They sell for 100% of market price.
Summoned creatures are not capable of teleportation among with a few other abilities Pathfinder restricts, as I recall.
This comment makes me think you're not actually reading what they're trying to say:
Someone said that there might be a place you are that you can't buy gems.
That was refuted by saying that you can teleport, and that if you can cast Miracle, you can cast Teleport (by asking for it with the Miracle) which can be done without the 25,000gp gem. You then use said teleport to GET the gem so you can Miracle a second time for something that DID require the gem.
It had nothing to do with summoned creatures (which was entirely a point relegated to summoning a critter which can cast Wish for you, for free).
Among the restrictions of summoned creatures. is that they can't use spells or SLA of spells with expensive material components. Calling can get around some of that, but it's not going to be free.
Not free, but negligible. The cost to get a ghaele (a 13 HD creature) to pop off to a jeweler and buy a gem would be 650 gold pieces if you used the more expensive planar ally. That's less than a 3% markup to the cost of the jewel you need to buy. A hound archon (6HD) would do it for 300 gp; that's about 1%. A lantern archon (2HD) would do it for 100. The 500 gp material components are more than that, but you can use blood money for those.
I wish there were a shopping service around here that would buy stuff to me and deliver it for under 3%.