Goblin Squad Member
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... Dude isn't making the call right now. He said plain as day, "We are gonna try it out and see if we like it." Its his settlement to hold or lose, but that isn't a decision he has to make now. He can hold it and decide its worth it or not, or wait, lose it, reevaluate his options, and decide to found another settlement, join another settlement, or quit the game.
He's not ignoring you, he is disagreeing with your premise that losing a settlement has to be a "dissappointing" experience because he is a different gamer type than you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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How about this. I'll count all the times that I've told someone they'll have more fun if they leave their large group and get together with 3 or 4 friends then spend ten weeks wheedling, cajoling and urging via a mix of TeamSpeak and Skype and mumble and email and forums a variety of other people into a tiny coalition so that they can see if they can hold a settlement long enough have a little fun with it, while someone else counts how many times someone from a larger, organized groups has told me I'm not going to have any fun and am just wasting time unless I join them.
Done!
How's your count going?
Hey, slow down, man.
Four comes after three, right?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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How about this. I'll count all the times that I've told someone they'll have more fun if they leave their large group and get together with 3 or 4 friends then spend ten weeks wheedling, cajoling and urging via a mix of TeamSpeak and Skype and mumble and email and forums a variety of other people into a tiny coalition so that they can see if they can hold a settlement long enough have a little fun with it, while someone else counts how many times someone from a larger, organized groups has told me I'm not going to have any fun and am just wasting time unless I join them.
Done!
How's your count going?
Ten weeks? Some of us have been doing that for over two and a half years.
It's fun sometimes, frustrating sometimes, and the amount of brag I can get out of it per unit of labor is far less than if I got a CrossFit membership.
But there's one thing that I think makes it all worthwhile for you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not trying to convince you to join me. I'm trying to set up a realistic expectation of this game for you and anyone reading this.
Sure I'll give you my count. Counting double packages for two and guild packages for 6 there are going to be 6339 people with day one access to this game. With 33 settlements to divide among them there will be 192.09 players per settlement meaning 0.52% of them will get to lead one.
Keep it mind those 6339 players represent those willing to pay 100+$ (or 80$ as a part of a guild package) to play this game on day one. There are thousands more backers who pledged at lower levels and thousands more people who weren't even aware of the kickstarter that will take an interest in this game.
Competition for settlements is going to be HOT.
Back to the original reason we got off on this tangent, if you think you'll have fun losing your settlement that's cool. You're an exception to the rule and not the kind of player who's intended to be running settlements in the long term. Those who are serious about keeping them will be forming or joining alliances.
I'm not trying to run you out of this game, nor do I particularly care if you join our alliance or not. I'm leaving the macro level politics to others. There are many aspects to PFO other than settlement ownership. But I figure it's fairer to lay down the facts to you now than for you to learn them at swordpoint after you spend months building up a settlement you're going to lose.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But there's one thing that I think makes it all worthwhile for you.
+1 for Sinatra. Would give another +1 for the relevance of your Sinatra if I could.
Back to the OP: good luck in your efforts to keep doing it your way despite all the other noise thrown into the thread.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I want to wish all the small groups out there the best. I spent more than 5 years in EVE and greatly enjoyed it but the constant battle with people who thought their way was the only way turned me away. You don't have to be a huge group to have fun, even at the settlement level. There are more people willing to ally with you than some posters would have you believe. This game will share traits with those sandbox games that came before but it is also unique. I hope to see those of you attracted by the games link to Paizo become a powerful force behind the uniqueness of PfO. I did not join TEO because they were the biggest, I only realized that after the fact, same as I hadn't known they had won a settlement in the first landrush. What drew me to them was the ideology they espoused and my interactions with my fellow members has confirmed my choice in my mind. While I respect the desire among my fellow gamers to stand against being engulfed by a larger institution and will cheer you on in your success's and feel for you when adversity strikes I can tell you that Andius represents the type of gamer that will arrive with OE. I believe that if we make PfO a success the horde that enters the game at that point will make him look meek and well mannered. If you are interested in taking this journey with us for the long haul you need to recognize that type of gameplay will exist. TEO will try to strike a softer path and I hope we can succeed in our agenda. If you try and fail to hold ground where you start that is not the end of the game. Know that even some of the largest groups in the game look at you not as foes to be smited but fellow gamers trying to create your own experience. Play the game you want to play.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I believe that if we make PfO a success the horde that enters the game at that point will make him look meek and well mannered.
Maybe well mannered but do you really think anyone could ever make me look meek. ;)
The group that enters at OE will contain many players who will be more aggressive for sure though. If it hasn't happened already by that point, they will be forcing out any settlement holding group who can't form a formidable defense. You have things, they want them, so they will take them. That's how many of them will operate.
Nothing in the outline PFO plans has ever alluded this won't be allowed or even that it will be more difficult than in other similar titles. Competition over settlements is a fully intended feature of the game.
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but both viewpoints are valid
But some are more valid than others. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Teribithia9 while this is 100% true these styles of gameplay are not happy acquaintances and will have to be reconciled. Now to continue on a general ramble I look forward to playing with and against everyone here but I will enter the game as soon as EE goes live looking to build the biggest bastion I can within the settlement of BrightHaven. Settlements will need hundreds of people to stand a chance once the system is up and NONE of us has the numbers to stand off the types of tactics I've seen in other PvP games. And this will be a PvP game where you will eventually be someone's target. Sometime after settlement sieging takes place we will get THOSE people in game. Our resident antagonists want to be king of the rock but there exists a subset of gamers that will smash the rock because that's what they do. Ultimately I expect to see people who laugh at the barriers put in place by Goblinworks who create Murderhoboville?sp and destroy everything they can. We can either force Goblinworks to limit their growth or manage this ourselves by working together. In TT the question gets asked why kingdoms have to hire adventurers for anything, in PfO we get the answer. The armies are already engaged in the great Murderhobo wars and don't have time to prune back the escalations and so on and so forth. In my mind the best results for this game would be the Accord forced into a real nation-state the NC the same and the belt of people in the middle either staying small and walking quietly or collapsing into a few large groups. Then we might all have to align against the evil Murderhobos and fight together to keep our collective identity as the founders of PfO. There is so much potential we can realize in this game if we accept our roles within this game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Back to the original reason we got off on this tangent, if you think you'll have fun losing your settlement that's cool. You're an exception to the rule and not the kind of player who's intended to be running settlements in the long term. Those who are serious about keeping them will be forming or joining alliances.
I don't think we'll have fun losing the settlement. I hope we won't lose it. I'm fairly certain that if we do lose the settlement, we'll have had more fun trying than if we just went "eh! we don't have a chance, so lets be part of something else before day one and spend the next ten weeks and spend out time recruiting for some other settlement."
I'm actually pretty sure that in the last four weeks I've already had more fun than I would have if I did that for those four and another six. If nothing else, I've met a few people that I hope I'll be friendly with for a long time and got drawn into an interesting community of which I'd barely heard before.
And if we do lose the community, then we'll walk away and either start again or join another group to see how that goes.
And just as a matter of interest, I have spent more than a dozen hours building alliances to greater or lesser degrees, some of which are going to be critical to our hopes, depending on where exactly we are in week ten. The fact that we don't have enough people to sustain our settlement today is not necessarily something that reflects our capacity to succeed at running a settlement, only this one. So don't be so quick to write me off as "not the kind of player whose intended to be running settlements in the long run"
There are no real lives or fortunes on the line here. We can afford to use this a s a "practice" run, and no-one will be ruined or commit suicide because we failed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think we'll have fun losing the settlement. I hope we won't lose it.
At this point the only way to lose a settlement is to be knocked out of the land rush. Everyone who gets one of the 33 land rush settlements will then be 'locked in' until 'settlement warfare' is added to the game. Thus, there should be time to try different approaches to 'War of the Towers' and still get back on your feet if things don't work out. Settlements that get it right earlier will be in better shape, but nobody is going to be 'losing their settlement' in-game any time soon.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think we'll have fun losing the settlement. I hope we won't lose it.At this point the only way to lose a settlement is to be knocked out of the land rush. Everyone who gets one of the 33 land rush settlements will then be 'locked in' until 'settlement warfare' is added to the game. Thus, there should be time to try different approaches to 'War of the Towers' and still get back on your feet if things don't work out. Settlements that get it right earlier will be in better shape, but nobody is going to be 'losing their settlement' in-game any time soon.
In context, "ever" is implied. :-)
I think we all understood from the start that tower wars wouldn't cost us our settlements up front. Its only lasting effect is a winnowing of recruiting advantage
We of DoM we are very happy of this tower warfare because it will give us mercenary group more possibilities to be know and to find other members to grow during EE.