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Not to derail things, but since this touches on a character i'm working on too... Doesn't envoy require a true neutral deity for incoming clerics?Yeah, when the Egyptian gods released, I almost screamed with excitement to see Horus and Ra with Rulership as their portfolio and a Neutral alignment.
I'm making a dual-channeling Cleric of Horus/Envoy of Balance. God of the Rising and Setting Sun indeed.
To qualify to for this prestige class, a character must fulfill the following criteria.
Alignment: Neutral.
Feats: Augment Summoning, Improved Counterspell, or Versatile ChannelerUM.
Skills: Knowledge (planes) 5 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level spells.
Special: If the character gains spells from a deity, this deity’s alignment must be neutral and it must be able to grant followers the ability to channel both positive and negative energy.
Good catch, that does appear to be the case. I'm glad you brought that up because it means a theory craft character I had is invalid (haha). That being said, Twinned Channeling probably has some very interesting interactions with variant channeling.
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There had better be a True Neutral rulership god out there or I'm gonna be... dangerously angry. I am impossibly excited about this character, and I am going to lose it if that invalidates the entire build.
I already grind my teeth at the creativity-shackling restriction of the "must worship a god" restriction which creates Clerics of the obscure Travel Domain gods who don't know anything about their deity besides its name. I've seen six of these. >_>
I had read the "must be neutral" requirement as "nonevil and nongood" on my first glance. Does it definitely mean "true neutral" in this context? Grrrr... I am really upset about this. I saw Envoy of Balance and was elated - it's the exact ability my daze-channeling build has been craving.
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I already grind my teeth at the creativity-shackling restriction of the "must worship a god" restriction which creates Clerics of the obscure Travel Domain gods who don't know anything about their deity besides its name. I've seen six of these. >_>
I thought Desna was the "go to" goddess for Travel domain without having to seriously role play the worship, and she's certainly not obscure. Abadar and Cayden Cailean are also easy choices for Travel domain. I'm not sure why anyone would pull out an obscure deity for that one.
Now, if someone wanted to have fun with an obscure deity and the Travel domain, Sun Wukong gives Travel, Trickery, and Chaos, which are all good domains, and he's an entertaining deity on top of that. I keep saying that if my pirate cleric of Besmara with the Trickery and Chaos domains dies, I'll replace him with a mechanically nearly identical cleric of Sun Wukong with the same domains, but a completely different personality.
PS. I disagree with you that making a cleric worship a deity is too limiting.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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since channeling generally only cares about the good / nuetral / evil axis (with some exceptions) channeling usually just refers to all the nuetral alighnments as "nuetral"
A good cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures. An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures. A neutral cleric of a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy.
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I'm not sure about that interpretation. Other alignment similar alignment restrictions don't have such strong wording (although they are paradoxically less ambiguous).
I feel like it would have said "Lawful Neutral, Neutral, or Chaotic Neutral" if that was the intention. That it specifically says "Neutral" suggests to me that the deity needs to be "true neutral".
Also, really, the prestige class is centered around neutrality, so it is entirely intuitive to me that it would require "true neutral" deity, although this is a little disappointing (I would have hoped a true neutral character would have been enough).
The PRD also documents the "True Neutral" alignment as "Neutral" under the alignment section:
Neutral: A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn't feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or law vs. chaos (and thus neutral is sometimes called “true neutral”). Most neutral characters exhibit a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality. Such a character probably thinks of good as better than evil—after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she's not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.
Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law, and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run.
Neutral means you act naturally in any situation, without prejudice or compulsion.
It's also worth mentioning that the neutral aligned deity requirement is broad and isn't specifically directed at channel whereas the second half of the sentence is.
Should we continue this discussion in the rules forms?
Developer
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Developer Patrick Renie recently clarified this point on the Champions of Balance discussion thread.
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I have a related question regarding Variant Channelling and Versatile Channelling that this seems like a relevant thread for.
If I select Variant Channelling does it apply to both the negative and positive uses of Channelling with Versatile Channel, or can I choose to apply Variant Channel to the Negative Energy Channels and have my Positive Channels work normally.
Alternately, can I apply one Variant Channel power such as Rulership to Negative Channels, and the Sun Variant Channel to Positive Channels if I worship Ra?
In another thread peoples seemed to think that option 2 made sense, but I would like other opinions, and perhaps some sort of ruling for PFS
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Thanks, John!
To Slartibart's question...
When you create a cleric character, decide whether she uses the standard form of channel energy or a variant presented here based on one aspect of her deity’s portfolio. Once this choice is made, it cannot be altered.
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A variant channeling either modifies positive channeled energy when used to heal or modifies negative energy when used to harm. When using positive energy to heal, affected creatures gain only half the normal amount of healing but also receive a specific beneficial effect. When channeling negative energy to harm, affected creatures take only half the normal damage but take an additional penalty or harmful effect; a successful saving throw negates the additional penalty or effect but does not reduce the damage any further.
I interpret this to say that:
1. You can only choose one variant.
2. The variant you choose only affects positive energy to heal, and negative energy to harm. It does not affect positive energy to harm, or negative energy to heal. It also modifies both negative energy channels and positive energy channels when used in the way specified in the text, you do not get to choose one or the other. It is my opinion that the use of "either" and "or" here was intended to dictate that variant channel is limited to affecting those specific uses of channel. But if you have way of channeling negative and positive energy, then both energy types would be modified as described in the text. I acknowledge the vagueness, and I suggest you prepare for table variation, or you seek an official response via a FAQ.
3. Because versatile channel simply lets you channel the opposing energy type of your initial choice, it does not have any special interactions with variant channel that allow you to have two variants.
So in short, your variant choice would modify both your positive healing channels, and negative harming channels, and you only get to choose one variant.
PFS typically does not do PFS specific rulings on this sort of thing, so whatever comes out of any rules discussion in the general PF boards would likely be the best thing to go with.