Undine Loyalty trait

[Ultrann]

Hi all!

I'm confused about Undine Loyalty.

Benefit(s): Choose one teamwork feat that requires an ally with the same feat to be adjacent to you. You may benefit from that teamwork feat as long as you have an ally within 10 feet of you (though your ally does not benefit from the teamwork feat unless it also has this trait or a similar ability).

1) So select a teamwork feat that requires an ally with the same teamwork feat to be adjacent. Does the next line mean that when you have an ally within 10' -- regardless of whether or not it has the teamwork feat -- that you can take advantage of that teamwork feat?

2) Let's say you both need the feat. If for example your ally has Swap Places, as do you (and you are Undine with Undine Loyalty), how does it work? Do you both swap places?

Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you can move into your ally’s square as part of normal movement. At the same time, your ally moves into your previous space as an immediate action. Both you and your ally must be willing and able to move to take advantage of this feat. Your ally must be the same size as you to utilize this feat. Your ally does not provoke an attack of opportunity from this movement, but you provoke as normal. This movement does not count against your ally’s movement on his next turn.

... because the text of the trait says they need the trait or similar ability to reciprocate.

3) Let's say your allies don't need the feat if you are an Undine with a teamwork feat and Undine Loyalty. If the Undine has Shake it Off, then, if he has four allies within 10' of him, he gets +4 on saves?

[Claxon]

1) Yes, as long as the text of the feat indicates that it's a Teamwork feat normally, and that it normally requires an adjacent ally. This feat enable you to use the feat if you have an ally in 10ft, even if they don't have the feat. Do note however, this doesn't invalidate the requirements of the feat. *For example I don't think you could use Swap Places if the ally was 10 ft away. But you could move adjacent to them, and then actiavte it. This feat is better for other Teamwork feats like Look Out or Duck and Cover.

2) You would have to swap places, you can't occupy the same square.

3) Yes

[RJGrady]

Undine Loyalty is a great name.

[Mojorat]

Wow.. that feat is awesome.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Necro-ing this.

Does anyone else have an opinion on how this trait is supposed to work, now that it's been around for a while and presumably shown up at a few tables? Or are people avoiding it because it's ambiguous?

Undine Loyalty wrote:

Category Race

Requirement(s) Undine
You learned early on that teamwork can help keep you safe from troublemakers. Choose one teamwork feat (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player’s Guide 150) that requires an ally with the same feat to be adjacent to you. You may benefit from that teamwork feat as long as you have an ally within 10 feet of you (though your ally does not benefit from the teamwork feat unless it also has this trait or a similar ability).

Here's a snippet of a build I'm thinking of:

Lvl 1 Half Orc Skald
Trait - Undine Loyalty(Amplified Rage)
Feat - Amplified Rage

Is Undine Loyalty enough to trigger Amplified Rage if none of my (raging) allies has the feat, but they're within 10'?

[Dolanar]

Its similar to the ability Inquisitors get to use Teamwork feats without an ally having them. some Teamwork feats would seem to not work (at least the last time I recall looking at them) but otherwise, if you can use it with an ally nearby who had the feat, it should work.

For Amplified Rage, if a Raging Ally is Adjacent to you or Flanking with you, you get the benefits of the feat.

[Berinor]

I think the wording isn't great, but this only overcomes the distance requirement, not the having the feat requirement. I think only the distance in the feat benefit is overridden by the "ally within 10 feat" text. It's not clear from the wording, but I think it's pretty clearly (famous last words) the intent.

[blahpers]

This doesn't pass the smell test. I'd FAQ it.

[Dolanar]

I didn't read the rules quote, my mistake, shame on me for jumping the gun. Yeah, it only lets you use the teamwork feats from a distance besides adjacent, so the allies would need the teamwork feat for it to even be a benefit to you.

So for Amplified Rage it would allow you to get the bonus from Raging allies who have Amplified rage within 10ft of yourself or Flanking. All in all, a pretty crappy feat, useful for an Undine Inquisitor though.