Create Pit Spell and Climb Checks

[Third Mind]

This has been debated over a lot in another thread and it was suggested that the question of it be brought here so that it can be further debated and FAQ'd to eventually get an answer.

The question, as far as I can tell and let me know if I have it wrong, is this:

Can a character who was standing at the sloped edge of the created pit, that has failed their reflex save (as per the pit spells), use the climb skill to attempt to catch themselves when falling into the pit?

If so, what would be the proper DC be for a person attempting a climb check to catch themselves when falling?

May need some editing, but it's getting really late here. So if anyone has better wording of the question, please feel free to throw it up so it can be FAQ'd.

[Diego Rossi]

Having been in that debate:

PRD wrote:

Catch Yourself When Falling: It's practically impossible to catch yourself on a wall while falling, yet if you wish to attempt such a difficult task, you can make a Climb check (DC = wall's DC + 20) to do so. It's much easier to catch yourself on a slope (DC = slope's DC + 10).

So there are several questions about that and the pit spell:

1) you can use that rule to catch the pit edge after it has opened under your feet and you have failed your reflex save?

2) if you can do that, what is the DC?
(a poster argue that as the slope is in reach you can use the slope DC instead of the pit walls DC)

3) If you are on the sloped part of the pit and fail the reflex save, you can use that rule to catch the slope ground and avoid falling into the pit?
Or you fall into the pit and can try only to catch the border at the higher DC?

[Diego Rossi]

My personal answers:

1) yes, but you must fulfill all the rules required to make a climb check, i.e.both your hands must be free. If you had something in hand you could drop it as a free action when you attempt the climb check.

2) If you are in the pit area the DC is that of the pit walls +20.

3) If you are on the sloped part of the pit and fail the refelx save you can try to catch yourself on the sloped part, but the DC is based on the climb DC set by the spell +10, not on the Dc of climbing a generic slope.

You have a single chance to catch yoruself, so if you fail it you fall into the hole, you don't get a second chanche when you enter the hole area.

(If someone has a link to the moment in which Indiana Jones fall in the pit and try to grasp the Grail, link it, it seem a perfect reference. Plenty of films with that kind of images, too.)

[dariusu]

I would think that the DC for the sloped edge of the pit wall is the same DC as the pit wall itself. The edge of a wall is still part of a wall. The spell doesn't say that there is some different slope zone that occupies all the squares adjacent to the pit that has a different Climb DC.

It could have easily said it was slippery at the edge of the pit. That wouldn't ever make it easier to hold on to the edge of the wall similarly. Normally in this game, you can can basically do the most strenuous or foolish things at the edge of a cliff without a chance of falling in unless that thing really specifically moved you toward the edge, or there was some terrain feature that made it almost like a trap. Loose rubble or something. I think that is why the spell mentions the sloped edge, merely as a reason someone could fall in accidentally.

[Meager Rolmug]

spell says
"make a Reflex saving throw with a +2 bonus to avoid falling into it"
than it says
"Creatures who fall into the pit take falling damage"

let that sink in....it is specifically not allowing a way to avoid hitting the bottom...read it 8 times if you have to, there really isn't another way to interpret it.

it could have just said "save to avoid falling" and left it at that, but it doesn't.

[Samasboy1]

1) Yes, you can catch yourself as doing so is a non-action. You need one hand free, since you can cling to a wall with one hand per Climb. If you don't have one free hand, you can't catch yourself, since you can't take a free action to drop what you are holding when it isn't your turn.

2) If the pit opens under you, Wall DC + 20 (DC 45)

3) If you end your turn on the slope around the pit, Slope DC + 10 (DC 10). A slope too steep to walk up is DC 0, and the sloped area of the pit doesn't give any reason to think it is steeper than that.

Single chance to catch yourself (if you start on the slope and fail, you can't try again in the pit).

Catching yourself is a non-action you must already be falling to attempt.

[DrDeth]

I thought this was clear but I hit FAQ since other posters seem sure too, so it can't hurt to get some clarification.

[Pizza Lord]

dariusu wrote:

It could have easily said it was slippery at the edge of the pit.

But if it said that then you would have to apply DC modifiers to Climb checks and acrobatics checks based on the 'slippery' modifier, which is the same problem with the designer using the term 'sloped'. But terms have ramifications. For instance, if you try and just from a slippery edge across the pit, or climb a slippery surface. The acid pit spell specifically has a higher DC for being slippery, but that may or may not change that its edges are sloped just like create pit which it references.

Since this is Rules, my interpretation that the intent was just to say the edges were 'unstable' rather than actually expanding the spell's area to 20 ft. x 20 ft. with the expansion of sloped terrain into each square surrounding the pit is just my opinion.

From a rules stand point, this is a pit, the same as any other pit. It's no different than a conjured house would be from a typically encountered house.

You can jump the pit, you can climb or even descend the pit, spider climb is just as effective on the walls of a create pit. Slow Fall works to halt your descent if available. Character below you in the pit can try and catch you if you normally allow such character to catch falling allies.

Meager Rulmug wrote:

"Creatures who fall into the pit take falling damage"

Misleading and deceptive. It actually says:

Quote:

Creatures who fall into the pit take falling damage as normal.

The damage dealt by the create pit spell is specifically for hitting the bottom, not for failing the Reflex save (though one obviously leads to the other.) If you don't hit the bottom, you don't take the falling damage. Anything that prevents that occurrence, prevents the falling damage, spell or not.