Hello all,
I have been playing Pathfinder for about two years now and I enjoy the game a lot. Although recently I have had a couple of serious issues with my current GM. This GM is my friend of mine, I have played in this campaign for about six months now. This is his. First shot at being a GM. I have about the same amount of experience as a GM as he does and I am currently running my own game. Said GM is in my game.
With that out of the way I would like to detail the accounts of what happened the other night.
To start off I had told my GM that if he needed help with here and there I would help him out. Last week I had sat down with him and I had offered my help. I had started to give him advice on making some Orc npc's that would present a challenge. It ended up with me almost making therm for him. It is my fault that it got this far. I texted him a few days. Later stating that I would love to help him but I do not want to be that involved in the creative process in a game that I am a player for meta gaming reasons. Though I reality it's because I just don't want to do it and I feel it is not my place as a player to do so. He said it was fine and that was that. Also it should be noted that this GM was a little upset that the game had been cancelled due to a hospitalization, a couple was moving and the other player had personal family issues. Yet this GM was not ready for the game to start anyways.
Fast forward a week into the future, which is the other night. Everyone gathers and the gm asks me if I had the ability score states that I had rolled last week. I did not because I had dropped the idea of that being my concern entirely. He then rolls stats for these npc's while the five players are waiting to get started. He then tells us to rp amongst ourselves while he works on the game. I had a new player come in as my characters brother. My character thought his brother was dead and then suddenly his dead brother appears from nowhere among the people that have been traveling with them for about 3 days. My character had rallied the townsfolk to move on to a safer place in the center of hitherto small town. How did my characters brother not see him and not approach him earlier and how am I supposed to just rp this with no direction?
After some messing around and banter (the GM included), the GM asks me to make the npc's yet again. Ok, what I did next was wrong. I made them, It took me about 30 minutes to make them, but I made them.
When I am done we have an encounter, it's fun but after that one encounter with some minor rp, he calls it a night. After 1 and a half hours. I would rather the game had been cancelled. The npc's that I made were not even used in the small amount of game time.
I just wanted to hear from the community. I know I should have said " no, I am not going to make your npc's". I am going to talk with my GM about this. But I just want to hear your guys thoughts on this. Just to hear other peoples opinions so that it can help me mentally digest this.
You need NPCs? Find a stat block somewhere. The NPC codex is good.
That is a good idea. I will have to get that. My GM wanted some touch orcs. He is fond of them. Thanks for the heads up. : )
I would ask your friend if he really wants to DM. It sounds like he would rather someone else do it, namely you, so if its something you like perhaps you should take over; nothing sucks more then a game where the DM just doesn't want to run it.
I get that feeling that he doesn't want to be a GM either. And yeah it does suck that he is one and seemingly doesn't want to be one.
Hate to break it to you then, you might want to find another DM for this. Its apparent that he doesnt want to DM and a DM that doesnt want to tend to have subpar or unsatifying adventures, or if they actually do become enjoyable it will drain the DM quite a bit.
Anyway, for NPCs you can use the Codex, or you could hit the books and find some in the Beastiary for some humanoids or the core book in the GM sections and just make some basic NPCs. Just note to him that he dont need full combat stats for NPCs that arent going to face combat.
And tell hin that he dosent need to Roll the stats of the NpCs :)
Thanks dracoknight, It looks like I will be getting a codex.
Though this campaign might end. A fair number of people have noted this behavior as a sign that he doesn't want to GM.
Is this the first time this has happened? you said at the beginning of your post that you had been playing in the campaign for about 6 months, what happens normally during these games?
Perhaps he is suffering a bit of GM burnout/ran out of ideas and needs a break or maybe he is a bit nervous about the game. Just ask him if he is enjoying GMing. Like others have said above use the codex or even just the Paizo PRD. which has tons of stats right from the book.
As others have also said, no need to have stats for every NPC.
Short sessions have happened before, but nothing like the npc incident.
Yeah, sounds like GM burnout. I can't go 6 straight months without a break or I get into the "f&#! it..whatever" mode too. It's a lot of effort to put in week after week.
And I like DMing more than playing. If you'd rather play in the first place I don't know how you'd last.
Quote: ...This is his. First shot at being a GM. ... To start off I had told my GM that if he needed help with here and there I would help him out. Last week I had sat down with him and I had offered my help. GM Burnout? Not want to DM? It's the guy's first shot at being a DM. The guy clearly respects you, you offered to help him out and he asked for help and he gets dumped on? He probably ended up as a DM at the end of someone else's campaign or because someone else 'needed a break'. There's a difference between burnout and needing some advice on how to get started and what to focus on (like not having to completely stat out every NPC).
If he asks you to stat out the NPC assassin who is going to disguise himself as your missing brother (which is why he didn't come forward earlier), sure that might a bit too much meta game information to know. But seriously, a first-time GM wanting someone to bounce ideas off of and offer some advice, even the hugely atrocious task of being ask to help stat out some decent orc NPCs that the group might find challenging is not the same thing. Big deal, you know one of the orcs is going to have trained in using the spiked chain. It'll probably be the one carrying the spiked chain.
If you don't want to help him with what he says he needs help with, sure, tell him where he can find some quick NPCs, either on-line or in the book, but don't bash all over some guy getting his first-shot at DMing and thinking you were sincere in offering to help.
PraxisOris wrote: Thanks dracoknight, It looks like I will be getting a codex. Just in case you arent aware, you dont have to 'get' the npc codex. Its available for free on the prd. In a situation like that, someone grabs a computer, prints or just lists out stats, and if they need to be orcs instead of humans, no big deal, just move a few stats around, that takes like 5 minutes.
But like others mentioned, it seems either this dm isnt aware of what he should be doing as dm (like preparing the adventure ahead of time) or doesnt want to dm. You should talk to him. In particular, if he isnt interesting in creating the material, but like the 'roleplay'/running side of dming (there are people like this) then he can use published adventures. All the stat blocks are there for him (or available in the prd) no writing/creating required. Just reading and whatever requisite prep time. Between that and the npc codex (for improvised situations) you can to relatively little work as dm.
So yea, have a conversation with him. It might be he doesnt want to dm. It might also be he doesnt want to do the work of gm. If its the latter, paizo has him covered in alot of areas.
He's new at being a GM - of course there's going to be a certain ammount of issues. None of us were naturals that successfully led entire campaigns from day 1. He'll have to learn, just like the rest of us - by stumbling, falling, getting up, dusting off, and forging ahead. Any half-decent learning process involves failure, takes time, and requires guidance.
That said, said guidance doesn't always need to be from people, or from people at the same gaming-table. Like many have said here before me, there's pre-generated NPC stats available for free all over the net to fuel his combat encounters. But not only that; just like how you are now reaching out for our opinion, so too does your friend have the option to address one of the many RPG communities out there if he wants (or needs) help.
I'm getting the vibe that your friend has a great story he wants to tell, and involve his friends to come along and enjoy the ride; the issue appears to be the game-technical component. Whether he wasn't prepared for it, doesn't care for it, or is simply too lazy, is key, I think. But whether if it is or not, you should make efforts to find out.
What I like best is that you're talking about this amongst each other. In the end, an RPG is still a people's game, a social gathering, and an exercise in entertainment; in order for everybody to have fun at the table, communication is going to be the central component both in, out, and around the game. Keep talking; be open, honest, polite; as friends are wont to. Tell him what you've noticed, ask him where you think the problem lies, and see if you can come up with constructive solutions that benefit the group as a whole.
Go forth and communicate, is my advice!
I would advise him to call off further sessions until he has the material "ready to go", or at least enough for one session. Sometimes life gets in the way and a GM falls behind.
Disclaimer: I have only read some of the post.
Also, whether he continues to DM, or someone else takes over Combat Manager is also a godsend. It has tons of NPCs programmed in, which you can look up by class and CR, and pretty easily modify.
Pathfinder Combat Manager.
Sometimes it is best though, that a first time DM does have a co-DM to really guide them through things for a while. Sure, normally you don't want to be building NPCs and helping out with these sorts of things too much, but with a first-time DM, I suggest that the players all accept that there will be more of that going on than typically would be ideal for a while. It's just part of helping someone "learn the ropes".
Pathfinder can be really overwhelming at first for a DM, it's very rules dense, and having to worry about being the main rules guy, along with building NPCs, and telling a story can be a real challenge, especially for a newbie. But everyone has got to start somewhere.
The adventure may be too much for him. I have had that happen to me before and it's hard to delay it without feeling like you are disappointing the players. He may need to take a step back and review what kind of time commitment and GMing skill level the adventure needs.
I recently had to do this when I was going to run the module "The Harrowing". It is a rich story and has a huge amount of NPC/PC interactions, which is one of my weak points. I am not the best at long role-playing encounters that have a sandbox style of options, as I am a bit shy in social situations that are outside my comfort zone.
Take some time and talk with him. The scope of the adventure may need to be changed to better suit his GM style. He may also have GMing and storytelling ambitions that are outside of his current GM experience abilities. That second one is the hole I generally fall into, with the desire to have a grand style adventure but not being able to pulling it off.
Thanks everyone for your feedback. I don't know why I forgot that the npc codex is online. And I will have to look into the combat manager. There are a handful of resources that help both him and myself out. Thanks to all who pointed these resources out to those who pointed out other issues or ideas that I was not thinking of.
It looks like I will be talking to him about the campaign. I was kinda upset last night and I forget how I myself can get burnt out on being a GM. But know, thanks to you guys I can have a talk with him about if he wants to be a GM and if he does the options that he has.
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