grapple Q :


Rules Questions


when you grapple with reach it say you pull the opponent closer to the nearest place:

1. what if its occupied? you cant grab ?
2. does it provokes AOO ?


1. What do you mean by occupied?

2. No


1) This is not specified; it's up to the GM's call what happens. I'd agree with the ruling that "you can't"

2) Yes you provoke an attack of opportunity, but if the enemy isn't close enough to threaten you then they can't make such an attack.


2. I was thinking they were asking does the enemy being moved provoke for being moved.

If that is not what you was meant then Dasrak is correct.


i'll explain:
1. you pull opponent - but another foe is in the way, what happen? (picture A - X - Y A=you, X=orc, Y=goblin, you grab the goblin, can you pull it ? )
2. i meant the AOO the OPPONENT movement of pulling him closer... does he provoke?


1. As long as you have an open square adjacent to you then it work.

2. No, he does not provoke.


wraithstrike wrote:

1. As long as you have an open square adjacent to you then it work.

2. No, he does not provoke.

1) logical

2) why not ? Movement provokes unless written otherwise .


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Movement (ie using a move action to move past an opponent) provokes. Movement in some sort of general sense does not necessarily provoke. The opponent did not take any type of action at all, so unless the actual action (you grappling and moving the opponent) is listed as an action that makes the opponent provoke attacks of opportunity then it doesn't. I don't even think there's a feat that lets you make your opponent provoke.

The best example I can think of to demonstrate this is bull rush. When you bull rush someone you provoke an attack of opportunity. If you succeed with your bull rush attempt you move your opponent a number of squares backwards. Regardless of his movement he does not provoke. Now if you take the Improved AND Greater Bull Rush feats you no longer provoke and your opponent's movement does provoke attack(s) of opportunity.

I think the big mistake people make when asking WHY does it do or not do this is people are trying to equate to real life/real world situation. This is a game and the biggest reason things work this way is for game balance. Do we to some degree want to mimic real world workings - sure. But not at the expense of building a balanced game with multiple options that are competitive.


Your example emphasize the fact it does provoke ....
In bull rush it is written bold that it DOES NOT provoke, hence if not saying it it does


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Provoking an Attack of Opportunity: Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing certain actions within a threatened square.

Moving: Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.

I would disagree and say the section above you are referencing discusses how an individual provokes by their action to move RAI. Furthermore I'd say he's not moving, but being grappled which involves changing his location which I view as an important distinction.

Every action that I can find (Bull Rush, Reposition, etc...) where you can move someone states they don't provoke which I'd suggest means they're setting a standard to make clear moving an individual is not the same as them taking a move action and thus doesn't automatically provoke. The fact that most of these require 2 feats in order to make them provoke I find telling as well and would say you'd have a game balance issue if grapple worked as you're saying.

I haven't found anything bomb proof RAW that spells this out, though. So I'd say it's open to GM interpretation. Someone more savvy than me might be able to find some text that does, though.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / grapple Q : All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions