Musket Master Gunslinger

[Himokl]

So while having a discussion with some friends we noticed a possible issue. In the first printing of Ultimate Combat the Musket Master ability Rapid Reload reads:

Rapid Reloader: At 1st level, a musket master gains
Rapid Reload (muskets) as a bonus feat. Use the updated
version of this feat on page 115.

This is on my PDF dated August 6th, 2013.

In the second printing it reads:

Rapid Reloader: At 1st level, a musket master gains
Rapid Reload (musket) as a bonus feat. Use the updated
version of this feat on page 115.

This version is current as of today.

I was wondering since this change did not appear in the official changes, was one of these a typo? If so, or even if not, what exactly does this ability grant a Musket Master.

Specific feats such as Rapid Reload work according to page 115 as
"Even though the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms)
feat grants you proficiency with all firearms, anytime
you take a feat that modifies a single type of weapon
(such as Weapon Focus or Rapid Reload), you must still
pick one specific type of firearm (such as musket, ax
musket, blunderbuss, pistol, or double pistol) for that
feat to affect."

This implies that one would need to take Rapid Reload (Musket) and Rapid Reload (Double-Barreled Musket) as individual feats.
Now according to strict RAW reading the original version did one of two things. A) Gave you Rapid Reload (Muskets) which doesn't do anything because a "muskets" isn't a weapon. B) Gives you weapon reload with all the muskets, which is 4 different versions of the feat.

The reprintings uncalled out change would change this to simply Rapid Reload (Musket), so if a Musket Master wanted to use a double barreled musket and reload it faster he would need to take an additional feat namely Rapid Reload (Double-Barreled Musket)

In short what does this ability do? Give the ability to reload 0,1 or 4 firearms quickly?

[Durngrun Stonebreaker]

Just the regular musket.

[Nefreet]

That's good to know. It means we no longer need this FAQ request answered.

[Katydid]

Curses. Ah well, double-barreled rapid reload shenanigans get set back by another feat, then.

[blackbloodtroll]

Poor Musket Axe.

[Durngrun Stonebreaker]

Nefreet wrote:

That's good to know. It means we no longer need this FAQ request answered.

Your FAQ request seems to be based solely on muskets being plural. Now that it has been updated to musket, singular, do you still think it might apply to every type of musket? If it was meant for every type, do you have an opinion as to why they specified muskets as opposed to two-handed firearms like they did with weapon proficiencies?

[Nefreet]

I always believed it was just the base musket, but as evidenced by that other thread, many did not.

Now that the "s" has been removed I believe there is less ambiguity. But there will still be people that argue otherwise.

[Durngrun Stonebreaker]

Nefreet wrote:

I always believed it was just the base musket, but as evidenced by that other thread, many did not.

Now that the "s" has been removed I believe there is less ambiguity. But there will still be people that argue otherwise.

Sorry, I didn't read the thread beyond your OP and thought your post in this thread was a sarcastic response to my post.

[Nefreet]

My first comment in this thread was in response to the updated text that Himokl was quoting.

I thought about posting a comment in the other thread, linking to this one, but decided to let it be and link that one here instead.

I'm glad the question got resolved, even if it was in the form of a stealth errata.

[reyyvin]

I was one of the people involved in the discussion with Himokl. I didn't get the AC until the second version and assumed the PRD was a typo off the AC; I assumed the RR feat was cut and dry: only applied to base Musket (aka, the 1500 gp version).

It wasn't until last night that I learned the original AC had the 's.' Since the change wasn't listed in the errata, it would be nice to know which is intended to be the correct version.

Was it an intentional change or an unintentional change?

Either way, is it intended to give 1 feat or 4?

[Nefreet]

Just one feat. Feel free to read the thread I linked above for the back and forth that already took place. The only real argument for multiple feats was the presence of the "s". Now that presence is gone.

Some excerpts from the other discussion:

"Plural, so all musket types."

"it says muskets which is plural"

"all muskets"

"There is no such thing as Rapid Reload (Heavy Crossbows); there is only Rapid Reload (Heavy Crossbow). There are, however, Rapid Reload (Musket) and Rapid Reload (Muskets)."

These arguments wouldn't exist if the "s" had never been included in the first place.

[reyyvin]

Nefreet wrote:

These arguments wouldn't exist if the "s" had never been included in the first place.

I agree completely. However, since the errata/change document does not reflect this as a change, it is very easy to argue that the removal of the "s" is a typo. The PDF was also not updated with that information.

As sad as it is, official verification as to which is the typo would be awesome - and stop that argument once and for all.

also, if it was intended to mean '1 musket and 1 musket = 2 muskets' or... 4 kinds of muskets.

The argument is very weak for the second interpretation; a free level 1 class ability that gives 4 feats? Not even Fighters get that. Additionally, the feat Martial Versatility is a Human Fighter (4) feat that requires you to already have a weapon specific feat to apply it to (so race specific, class specific, AND 2 feats).

[reyyvin]

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

That's good to know. It means we no longer need this FAQ request answered.

Your FAQ request seems to be based solely on muskets being plural. Now that it has been updated to musket, singular, do you still think it might apply to every type of musket? If it was meant for every type, do you have an opinion as to why they specified muskets as opposed to two-handed firearms like they did with weapon proficiencies?

As to the general proficiency, Exotic weapon (Firearms) gives proficiency with all firearms. The Archetypes of Musket Master and Pistolero reduce the proficiency to only include weapons in their specialized area.

As to any other weapon specific feat, as pointed out above, pg 115 of UCombat specifically states that these feats only apply to 1 specific type of firearm. aka, Weapon Focus (double-barreled Musket), Weapon Specialization (Blunderbuss), or Improved Critical (Coat Pistol).

The reason for the FAQ request is to determine if the "s" is a typo... or the removal of the "s" is a typo. The change wasn't included in the errata page for the new edition (available http://paizo.com/products/btpy8mcz?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Ultimate-Com bat ).

Also to have one less argument at PFS tables.