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I am a computer programmer. Though I am not familiar with haskell, I know enough to read what he wrote. Unfortunatly, it is irrelevant to pathfinder as he is calculating distance geometrically from center of square to center of square, which is not how pathfinder calculates distance.
Feuerrabe, you need to be calculating distances as an A* path finding algorithm, with diagonals weighted as 1.5, and rounded down, and with the first square adjacent to an intersection weighted as a diagonal move. (The first square adjacent to an edge is a single move.) All distances are multiplied by 5, after rounding.
So it should look like:
NA 20 25 30 36
NA 15 20 25 30
NA 10 15 20 25
NA 05 10 15 20
00 NA NA NA NA
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Side note, why are you using acos which requires you to take three differences, two multiplications, and a square root instead of atan which would only have required two diffences, and if you were lucky in how your language implements it, would have negated the need for baseangle and taken you straight to angle?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat/space-reach-threatened-area-te mplates
Look at pictures on right.
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If you're having cone problems I feel bad for you son.
I got 99 problems and a spell ain't one.
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That's still a lot of problems.
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That's still a lot of problems.
Monkin' ain't easy.
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Side note, why are you using acos which requires you to take three differences, two multiplications, and a square root instead of atan which would only have required two diffences, and if you were lucky in how your language implements it, would have negated the need for baseangle and taken you straight to angle?Hmmmm... well, my knowledge on geometrics is rusty, you wouldn't believe how long I had to think about to come to what I wrote. But wouldn't I have to distinguish at least four cases for the tangens? a) the angle is pi/2, b) the angle is 3*pi/2, c) the angle is between pi/2 and 3*pi/2, d) otherwise (the angle is between 3*pi/2 and 2 * pi or between 0 and pi/2).
Nope. If your language supports a 2 arguement atan, then all you have to do is enter opposite (y dist) and adjacent (x dist), and the sign on those gives you the quadrant of your angle. (If your language only supports 1 argument atan, then yes, you need to write something about the same as complexity as your angle from base angle code.
The example for a straight upwards 15 ft. cone in the core rulebook is wrong, because it doesn't originate from a corner of a square. The two example on the top of my PDF file are correct. They look like shorter versions of the 30 ft. cone in the core rule book, as they should, because the length of the cone is the only different. They both spread in the same way, in two dimensions they are both quarter circles originating from the corner of a square.
One doesn't need to write a program for that, that was mostly a finger excercise for me - it's the first thing I've ever written in Haskell, but a pen and a piece of paper would have done the job as well, so the little script isn't that horribly important.
It can't be wrong. It is what the rules stipulate. :) They chose to have the 30 foot cone start two wide, and the 15 foot cone start 1 wide, for whatever balance reasons they had in mind or just because they felt it looked better.
If you want cones to be geometrically accurate and consistent, Play GURPSs or HERO system.
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OOOOOOO
OThis is what your 5th frame should look like, for example.
While the code discussion is outside my understanding, Nefreet's diagram does illustrate a problem I have with cones; namely that according to RAW, a caster can't stand against a wall, and fire along the length of the wall, unless they forfeit a large portion of the spell area.
I'd like to be able to do this:
OOOOOOO
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OOOOOOO
OThis is what your 5th frame should look like, for example.
While the code discussion is outside my understanding, Nefreet's diagram does illustrate a problem I have with cones; namely that according to RAW, a caster can't stand against a wall, and fire along the length of the wall, unless they forfeit a large portion of the spell area.
I'd like to be able to do this:
OOOOOO
O
Why can't you do this? You can choose the intersection which is the origin point - what is stopping you from doing exactly what you described?
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Why can't you do this? You can choose the intersection which is the origin point - what is stopping you from doing exactly what you described?While the code discussion is outside my understanding, Nefreet's diagram does illustrate a problem I have with cones; namely that according to RAW, a caster can't stand against a wall, and fire along the length of the wall, unless they forfeit a large portion of the spell area.
I'd like to be able to do this:
OOOOOO
O
Because the cone is now pointed towards one of your other vertices.
Why can't you do this? You can choose the intersection which is the origin point - what is stopping you from doing exactly what you described?OOOOOOO
OThis is what your 5th frame should look like, for example.
While the code discussion is outside my understanding, Nefreet's diagram does illustrate a problem I have with cones; namely that according to RAW, a caster can't stand against a wall, and fire along the length of the wall, unless they forfeit a large portion of the spell area.
I'd like to be able to do this:
OOOOOO
O
Cones are always fired directly away from the caster. A NE facing cone, such as the one in the example can only be fired from the NE corner of the caster's square. If you choose the NW corner as in the example, that cone must then face NW. In short, you can choose the intersection, but not the direction.
Because the cone is now pointed towards one of your other vertices.Why can't you do this? You can choose the intersection which is the origin point - what is stopping you from doing exactly what you described?While the code discussion is outside my understanding, Nefreet's diagram does illustrate a problem I have with cones; namely that according to RAW, a caster can't stand against a wall, and fire along the length of the wall, unless they forfeit a large portion of the spell area.
I'd like to be able to do this:
OOOOOO
O
Why is this a problem?
It can't be wrong. It is what the rules stipulate. :) They chose to have the 30 foot cone start two wide, and the 15 foot cone start 1 wide, for whatever balance reasons they had in mind or just because they felt it...It can be wrong in so far as the graphical example is clear contradiction with the wording of the rules.
A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goesThe graphical example for a 15 foot upwards cone contradicts this rule... I would really like if a next version of the rules
- Makes a clear distinction between the point of origin and the square of the caster.
- Draws the points of origin where they exactly are
- Formulates the rules and presents the visual examples in a way that they are coherent.
I am failing to see the problem here. You are using squares so you can't really get a true "quarter-circle", but the intent and functionality are not a problem.
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I am with blahpers on this one.
I don't see how snorter's cone is not going "away from you."
It originates on the "any corner" and in the direction "you designate."
I don't see how snorter's cone is not going "away from you."
Really?
The cone originates West of the character , then heads East. How exactly does something start West of you then head away from you by going East?
wait... PF uses Manhattan distance? sigh, I've been GMing my cones all wrong...
I don't see how snorter's cone is not going "away from you."
Really?
The cone originates West of the character , then heads East. How exactly does something start West of you then head away from you by going East?
No, it originates on his NW corner and heads NE. It is still traveling "away" from him, just the "widens as it goes" means the edge remains in proximity.
OOOOOOO
This cone is traveling toward X, which is definitely away from the caster. The cone's widening means the near edge remains close to him, but the cone is aimed away.
This is why fighters far outclass casters, they just have to swing and miss.
FTFY. ;P
(ACs on monsters outpace the BAB of a fighter, increasing strength and weapon enchant only keeps you from only hitting on a crit-threat. Oh right, Pathfinder fixed this problem over 3.5. Instead of hitting on 20s, you now hit on 19s too!)
You pick a corner and a direction. <----How is this not happening? O.o
You pick a corner and a direction. <----How is this not happening? O.oAre you certain we're talking about the same cone example here? The one I think that is wrong is this:
.
.
OOO
OOO
O
OWhere
Ois the square of the caster. It does not originate from a corner.
I don't see that cone in the book. If someone is starting in the middle of a square they are not following the rules.
ok. I misunderstood your drawing. I get it now.
I see that one is supposed to be the other option for comparison to the 30 foot cone that pushes out using the squares. If you open the book look at the 30 foot cone to the right.
I think they should just make a rule saying the 15 foot cone is a rules exception. Anything else is likely to cause more problems.
OOO
OOO
O
OWhere
Ois the square of the caster. It does not originate from a corner.
It looks to me like that would be the cone if it originated from either NE or NW corner an moved toward X.
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How a cone works. Imagine Burning Hands. The caster spreads his hands like so at the end of the casting to direct the cone.
[url]http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-117530092/stock-vector-illustration-black-s ilhouette-child-hands-with-five-fingers-spread.html[/url]
(thumbs touching.)
Now to direct it straight ahead or from one corner straight out it, all the caster has to do is turn his body.
xxOOOxx.....xxOxxxx
xxOOOxx.....xxOOxxx
xxxOxxx.....xxOOOxx
xxxCxxx.....xCxxxxx
To cast it from the opposite corner across his body he'd have to do odd contortions to aim it. Try spreading your hands and pointing them to your right with them on your left side of your body. It is awkward as all heck.
To draw an X-foot circular burst, pick an intersection. Measure out from there by x feet in four directions, then draw eight diagonal stairsteps. Start by going one across, then draw a series of "one down, two across" stairsteps from there. You wind up with an octagonal area.
The shape of a cone at 45 degrees is the same as a quarter of a burst.
The shape of a cone at 90 degrees is the same as a quarter of a burst burst not including the squares at 45 degrees but with a slice added in the middle, expanding the front of the cone to three squares wide. That slice in the middle lines up with the caster.
Thank you, and you are welcome.
At some point, it makes sense to just have a few choices, and that's it. You can fire it in this pattern, or this pattern. no, it doesn't make math sense, but it's a game, and dwelling too much on it is going to slow things down and become a distraction.
Examples of overthought:
You could go so far as to have partial threats, if you so choose as well, where they, perhaps, have either a huge bonus on their save, or a save means none and fail means half. Something like that would make it seem not so 'blocky' I suppose.
Then there's things like larger creatures in AoE. A larger creature taking up 4 squares SHOULD be receiving 4 times as much effect from an AoE, right? does it? Or is it that it only has a face twice as large, it should take double damage from a burst/cone effect? You can tear into this as far as you like, but at some point, it becomes more important than the story, and that's not right, in my opinion.
If VTT's really come of age someday, and we're all playing on an active display table, then it'd be easy to select an origin spin it around until it's aiming just the way you want - but until then, it's just too much bother for manual tabletop play.
If it's allowed, that's fine.
But it differs from the examples given in the RAW, which I thought were the only options.
Ah, I get it.
The cones provided aren't the only options. You select a point of origin, and you select a direction. Everything within a quarter circle centered on that direction is affected. You aren't limited to the eight cardinal directions that the CRB would illustrate; you can select any direction at all. Just follow the rules for walking the grid intersections to determine whether it's within range. You can select any angle at all.
Adjudicating a 2D cone is much simpler if you walk one side of the cone (using the line walking method), then walk the other side by simply rotating your first walk by 90 degrees. Everything between them is in the area of effect (up to the maximum distance of the cone).
Cones in which the third dimension is relevant are more complicated, especially if they aren't straight up or down, but the principle is basically the same.
The cone originates West of the character , then heads East. How exactly does something start West of you then head away from you by going East?No, it originates on his NW corner and heads NE. It is still traveling "away" from him, just the "widens as it goes" means the edge remains in proximity.
OOOOOO
OThis cone is traveling toward X, which is definitely away from the caster. The cone's widening means the near edge remains close to him, but the cone is aimed away.
NW is still within the arc of "West" just as NE is still within the arc of "East". The cone is traveling West to East as well as South to North.
0 1 2 3 4
OOOOOOO
I've numbered the columns in the diagram 0 through 4. 0 is the Westernmost column, 4 is the Easternmost. I've also indicated the cone's direction of travel from its point of origin along its line of symmetry. Disregard the rows, since only movement along the E-W axis is relevant.
The character is in column 1, X is in column 3 (east of the character). The cone originates on the border between column 0 and column 1 (west of the character, who resides wholly in column 1).
The cone travels east (towards the character) through column 1 (the character's column) then continues east (away from the caracter) through columns 2 and 3.
The problem is, the cone begins by moving in a direction other than away from the character. The cone only moves away from the character.
From the NW corner, as indicated, the cone can only travel in one of three directions: Directly North, North-West, or Directly West.
OOLLOOO
The direction of the cone goes from caster to X (along the L's).
If that is not "away" from the caster, your and my definition of "away" is too far apart to reconcile.
At no point does the line move closer and at every point it is further way than the previous point.
But the cone also spreads, which brings the edge back into proximity to the caster.
The Cone description doesn't say "directly" away, as you said in your first post. Just away.
At no point does the line move closer and at every point it is further way than the previous point.
And if we were talking about lines instead of cones this would be relevant
But the cone also spreads, which brings the edge back into proximity to the caster.
So the cone itself gets closer to the caster. It seems we are in agreement. What are we arguing about again?
The line is relevant, since it is the direction of travel.
"A cone-shaped spell shoots away from you in a quarter-circle in the direction you designate. It starts from any corner of your square and widens out as it goes."
So it "shoots away from you" "in the direction you designate."
The direction it is traveling in is away from you. That is all that is required.