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Rule:
Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.
It's fairly obvious that wands should be considered weapon-like for the purpose of this rule, which is to allow a player to draw an item during movement (instead of a separate move action). What about:
Scrolls?
Potions?
Other things?
Curious what most people think should be considered weapon-like. I've only ever really used wands and similarly shaped objects myself, but I can see the argument about scrolls too. The language behind scroll cases seems a bit odd, and implies they take their own move action. -shrug-
Thoughts?
Weapon-like --> Improvised weapons: broken bottles, chair legs, gnomes
Torches, sunrods, etc. should work, I would think. They seem 'weapon-like' without being actually considered weapons.
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This question does have huge repercussions, though, when you consider the usefulness of a scroll of Breath of Life.
Party member gets killed. Cleric is 20 feet away and next in initiative. Cleric has scroll of Breath of Life in tube on belt.
SCROLLS ARE WEAPON-LIKE:
Cleric draws the scroll as he moves adjacent, then uses standard action to read scroll.
PC is now alive.
SCROLLS ARE NOT WEAPON-LIKE:
Cleric moves adjacent, then uses another move action to draw scroll.
PC is now really dead.
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This question does have huge repercussions, though, when you consider the usefulness of a scroll of Breath of Life.
Party member gets killed. Cleric is 20 feet away and next in initiative. Cleric has scroll of Breath of Life in tube on belt.
SCROLLS ARE WEAPON-LIKE:
Cleric draws the scroll as he moves adjacent, then uses standard action to read scroll.
PC is now alive.SCROLLS ARE NOT WEAPON-LIKE:
Cleric moves adjacent, then uses another move action to draw scroll.
PC is now really dead.
This is the other reason why I allow drawing scrolls as part of a move in my games. The first option is just plain more fun for the people at the table, which is after all the point of the game.
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Guess it makes preparing the spell in one of your spell slots worth it.
Just because some spells don't work well on scrolls doesn't mean it should influence how they function.
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Yeah, the scrolls one is what I was most up in the air about. I think I *might* be okay with it with the understanding that, on a natural 1 against an area effect spell, they will have a good chance at being destroyed (scrolls having hardness 0 and 1 hp). You generally roll randomly to get four "exposed" items. If a scroll was made accessible enough to draw on the move, then it'd be exposed.
At least wands have a *chance* at survival with hardness 5 and 5 hp, but scrolls? Poof.
The idea of "weaponlike" is so vague and arbitrary that I pretty much just call anything weaponlike so long as it requires no particular care or attention when drawing. A wand or rock would qualify. A hedgehog would not. A scroll, well, you have to unroll the thing too, so probably not. Though some weapons are at least that complicated, and the scroll use action should take care of unrolling and finding the spell.... What the heck. Yes to scrolls.
This only applies to items within easy reach, though. I expect players to be mature enough to decide somewhat realistically whether or not a given item is within easy reach.
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I could see a valid argument for scrolls. If you are talking about a rolled-up piece of paper, then probably not. But if you think of it as a piece of paper wrapped around one or two sticks, then that seems similar enough to a wand to allow it (at least for me).
Physical Description: A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8-1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide.
Would anyone consider scrolls to fall into this? I've always leaned towards saying scrolls can't be drawn this way, but it would be nice to know I'm not being unreasonable :)
Scrollmaster: Ultimate Magic (only this class)
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Scrolls are fragile and should be carried in a scroll case. The rules state that if five or less scrolls are in a case, it takes a move action to remove one. I think there is also an assumption that the scroll case is in easy reach such as hanging on the hip.
As for other items, I consider any item that can be retrieved as easily as a sheathed weapon to qualify as weapon-like for the purpose of drawing it out.
Examples:
- Wand in a backpack - No
- Wand in a wand hip-sheath - Yes
- Wand in a wrist-sheath - Yes
- Potion in a pouch - No
- Potion in a bandolier - Yes
- A mug sitting on a table - Yes
- A branch sitting on a table - Yes
- A branch sitting in a fire - No
If the action involves anything more than placing your hand on the item and easily pulling it out (yeah, that sounds bad, doesn't it), then it does not qualify as weapon-like in that instance.
The idea of "weaponlike" is so vague and arbitrary that I pretty much just call anything weaponlike so long as it requires no particular care or attention when drawing. A wand or rock would qualify. A hedgehog would not.This is not a good standard. A Chakram or Starknife is sharp all around and therefore takes care to draw. They are unambiguously weapons. There are tricks for storing ready chakrams, but they rely on them having big round holes in the middle and therefore won't work on starknives.
The Starknife is a CRB weapon and therefore must be considered the standard of weaponlike if weaponlike is defined by the amount of care required to safely draw a weapon.
Or maybe the hedgehog is just a poor example. You cannot draw a hedgehog not just because it's sharp but because you can't move it abruptly without hurting it and it squirms.
Paper's pretty fragile.
But consider a Greater Caster's Shield (UE). The normal caster's shield is a terrible deal, costing 2000gp over a normal +1 shield and limited to 3rd level scrolls, but the greater version is only 1000gp over a normal +3 shield and Breath of Life is just within its limits. The way it cuts scribing prices it will pay for itself the fourth time you put a 5th level spell in it.
I consider this to support my standard rather than detract from it. If a character is assumed to have sufficient ability to draw an exotic, difficult-to handle-weapon easily, what reason is there to prevent drawing a scroll or potion so long as it's stored within easy reach? I can't justify it to my players, so I would allow it--again, so long as they aren't trying to store 200 pounds of roughly-club-sized-and-weighted objects on a thin rope cinching their robes about their waists. (But I'd have a problem with that regardless of whether the objects were weapons. At least pick up an adventurer's sash of two if you want to go all Tasselhoff Burrfoot, people....)
Good rule of thumb:
-Can I whack somebody with it?
If yes, you can draw it as part of a move. Whether this be a weapon, a wand, or a metamagic rod.
If no move to #2:
-Is it stored in a reasonably easy to get to location (i.e. bandolier, holster/sheathe, up my sleeve, etc.).
If yes, you can draw it as a part of a move. This can be anything from a bandolier potion, to an alchemical item, to sufficiently unsecured scrolls.
If no, then no.
I allow one scroll in a specially designed quick access pocket per character. But, as a double edged sword, if you can get to it easily, so can your foe, which means that if I throw a monster whose MO involves using Steal checks in combat, you might lose your scroll if you get unlucky on my roll to designate what s/he's gonna steal.
I think the reason scrolls take longer to draw is because of the fact that you have to look to see what scroll you are taking out. If you just run and draw one you have the same chance of drawing your scroll of cute light wounds as you do your scroll of fireball.
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Scrolls are fragile
Physical Description: A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8-1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide.
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I think the reason scrolls take longer to draw is because of the fact that you have to look to see what scroll you are taking out.
Sort of like how whenever I need to get my keys or wallet or whatever, I have to take a second to check which pocket has it, or else I might accidentally pull out the wrong thing.
Oh wait.
I can retrieve my wallet (without accidentally guessing the wrong pocket and getting my keys or comb or whatever), open it up, and retrieve my debit card (and not accidentally my driver's license or whatever else), with my eyes closed.
Play your own game how you want, but I have more fun when my fantasy heroes are not less competent than real-life me.
cute light wounds
Ew...
I would read "weapon-like" to refer to objects like hand tools. Something with a consistent shape that is easy to grab, and requires no further manipulation to ready. Also something that can be stored in such a way that it only takes a single motion to retrieve.
However given that this could include everything from a little glass wand to a great axe, I'm inclined to be fairly flexible.
Scroll tube - yes
scroll - no
potion or alchemical item - yes if stored in some sort of bandolier, but no if it is in a pouch with half a dozen other objects.
Another reason not to allow drawing scrolls as part of a move action is because it's one of the options for the Cyphermage prestige class.
Swift Scroll (Ex): The cyphermage does not provoke attacks of opportunity when retrieving a stored scroll. If the cyphermage moves at least 10 feet, he may retrieve a scroll as a free action as part of his move.
I believe there's also a wizard archetype that uses scrolls as weapons.
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Scrolls are fragilePhysical Description: A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8-1/2 inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide.
...To protect it from wrinkling or tearing, a scroll is rolled up from both ends to form a double cylinder. (This also helps the user unroll the scroll quickly.) The scroll is placed in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood. Most scroll cases are inscribed with magic symbols which often identify the owner or the spells stored on the scrolls inside. The symbols sometimes hide magic traps.
;)
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I'm exceptionally lenient when it comes to allowing things to be drawn as a move action. If someone can unsheathe a greatsword strapped to their back as part of a move action, they can pull out a potion/wand/metamagic rod/scroll/flask/dagger/etc that's in a convenient location on their body (attached to a belt or in a bandoleer/sheath).
When I GM this works both ways, though, as grappling enemies with the right feats can snatch that scroll of breath of life or your uber-expensive metamagic rod off you with a decent CMB check.
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I would read "weapon-like" to refer to objects like hand tools. Something with a consistent shape that is easy to grab, and requires no further manipulation to ready. Also something that can be stored in such a way that it only takes a single motion to retrieve.
Whip
LongbowShort bow
Blowpipe
Flail
Morningstar
Sling
Slingstaff
Net
Lasso
Crossbow
Since caltrops do damage, are they considered to be weapon-like?
Flask of oil
Alchemist's fire
Tanglefoot bag
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I would read "weapon-like" to refer to objects like hand tools. Something with a consistent shape that is easy to grab, and requires no further manipulation to ready. Also something that can be stored in such a way that it only takes a single motion to retrieve.Whip
Longbow
Short bow
Blowpipe
Flail
Morningstar
Sling
Slingstaff
Net
Lasso
CrossbowSince caltrops do damage, are they considered to be weapon-like?
Flask of oil
Alchemist's fire
Tanglefoot bag
This is why I'm lenient - if you can draw alchemist's fire as a weapon-like object as a free action while moving, why couldn't you draw any other liquid in an almost identical container? If you can draw a whip in that fashion, why not a length of coiled-up rope?