But the Bard using it also benefits from Inspire Courage, which is almost functionally identical in the benefits given by Archeologist Luck. That's why I'm not quite getting your point.
chaoseffect wrote: But the Bard using it also benefits from Inspire Courage, which is almost functionally identical in the benefits given by Archeologist Luck. That's why I'm not quite getting your point. This. Standard Bards get all their own buffs.
It sounds like Standard Bard or Summoner is what I'm looking for, but summoner seems just a tad too advanced for me at the moment. I looked at some of the other Archetypes for Bards and none really drew me away from Standard Bard, so I'm going to stick with that.
What race should I be choosing? Humans seems good, they get the extra feat and the extra skill rank. Half-orcs get a falchion and seem like a good option for a melee bard. Gnomes seem REALLY good due to the bonuses they get and the spells from Gnome Magic aren't all bad. Half-elves seem good because at some point I'm going to have to take a level in Ranger or another class to get all the skills available to me, and Multitalented will at least give me +1 to hit points or +1 skill point for each level I take. Dwarf seems alright too, but the -2 to cha seems counter to what I want.
Gnome seems like the best option but I'm new here, so maybe not.
Rannan wrote: It sounds like Standard Bard or Summoner is what I'm looking for, but summoner seems just a tad too advanced for me at the moment. I looked at some of the other Archetypes for Bards and none really drew me away from Standard Bard, so I'm going to stick with that. Solid call. Standard Bards are good.
Rannan wrote: What race should I be choosing? Humans seems good, they get the extra feat and the extra skill rank. Half-orcs get a falchion and seem like a good option for a melee bard. Gnomes seem REALLY good due to the bonuses they get and the spells from Gnome Magic aren't all bad. All those are valid Bard options. If you want to pretend to be a noble, Golarion's very humanocentric, so Human or Half-Elf are the best choices for that specifically.
Rannan wrote: Half-elves seem good because at some point I'm going to have to take a level in Ranger or another class to get all the skills available to me, and Multitalented will at least give me +1 to hit points or +1 skill point for each level I take. Half Elf is solid (and can get you a weapon proficiency with Ancestral Arms)...but why in the world would you multiclass for skills? That's a terrible idea. Bards get as many skills as Ranger and delaying your performances and spells is almost universally a bad call for the little Ranger gives you. If you want additional Class Skills, that's what Traits and an occasional Feat are for.
Rannan wrote: Dwarf seems alright too, but the -2 to cha seems counter to what I want. Dwarf's generally a good call...but a terrible one for Bards specifically.
Rannan wrote: Gnome seems like the best option but I'm new here, so maybe not. Gnome is a great option for a caster Bard who focuses on their spells (especially illusions)...not so much for a melee Bard, where small size a strength penalty, and no bonus to Dex do you no favors, and slow speed hurts as well.
Half orc and humans make the best skill monkeys in my eyes. Human is truly the best but the half orc can trade dark vision for skilled to close the gap. Also half orc with sacred tattoo alternate racial trait combined with fates favored trait is a potent +2 to all saves all the time. And of course the half orc gets an extended weapon selection, which helps with a bard. Finally, half orc gets favored class bonus that gets extra rounds for performing and that opens a lot of options.
Both human and half orc can and should take fast learner feat so that you can maximize skills or health. Ill have to defer to others as to what is your best choice between selection favored class option for bard between human or half orc and the usual choice of skill or HP.
Gnome is NOT a bad choice, good one even, but for a min maxer of skill monkey the half orc and human are always the top two by the numbers. Numbers aren't everything though so if you want a gnome go with it.
I actually did not want a gnome, they just seem good as a caster Bard. Quite honestly a gnome's general attitude would fly right in the face of what I want my character to be like. I've just got to get used to doing what I like/want rather than going with a race I dislike because it seems better. I'll likely role human. Like Deadmanwalking said, Golarian is humanocentric and I'd like my character to be attractive but blend in still. Kinda hard to blend in when your race sticks out like a sore thumb just because they're different in size/shape/color.
So human or half-elf with the Fast Learner feat to start. Can a half-elf take Breadth of Knowledge due to Elven Blood? I'm assuming I would have to be venerable, which if that is the case I will forgo the feat because the -3 to str, dex, and con aren't worth the +1 in int, wisdom, and cha.
How should my stat spread be? I'm thinking that as a skill monkey and social butterfly, int and cha should definitely be main stats, but what about str and dex and wis? Any spare points that I can put into con I will because I'd rather not stub my toe and bleed out.
The half elf would have to be 100 years old and take this penalties as far as I know. Besides diletante would be infinitely better for you. At the expense of the same feat and a skill rank across the 10 skills, you gain a +2 to all those skills with no restrictions beyond the cost I mentioned. Even that is still weak sauce for a core bard though since you know your taking 10 or 20 fairly soon.
Yeah the Breadth of Knowledge isn't worth it then. What about Improvisation? It seemed good at first, but then I realized the more I leveled and the more skills I picked up the less effective it became. Am I looking at this wrong? A +2 bonus to all skills I haven't picked up could be beneficial in the beginning, but eventually Bardic Knowledge is going to outdo that. And Bardic Knowledge is free.
Rannan wrote: Yeah the Breadth of Knowledge isn't worth it then. What about Improvisation? It seemed good at first, but then I realized the more I leveled and the more skills I picked up the less effective it became. Am I looking at this wrong? A +2 bonus to all skills I haven't picked up could be beneficial in the beginning, but eventually Bardic Knowledge is going to outdo that. And Bardic Knowledge is free. You think like a skill monkey and have sought out many of the fine choices for that role, but have the wrong class to make best use of what you have found. Improvisation and improved improvisation are both good but the bard is greater than these. It's about the math...
Consider that would you rather burn 1 or 2 feats to gain +2 or +4 respectively in skills you have no ranks in OR simply put a skill rank in every skill that you have in your class skill list (which has 28 and the largest list if I recall accurately) to gain the +3 for it being in your list? Numbers don't lie. Also your instincts about bardic knowledge are pretty close. It's a free +10 across 20 levels but its still worth one skill rank in each one of em just to get the +4 (3 from class skill and 1 from skill rank).
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Rannan wrote: It makes me sad we can't level past 13 though. Seems like there could be so much more fun by going up higher. Well while most characters retire after 12th or the Seeker Arc...you can choose to continue, especially since there is sanctioned higher level module content.
For example the Reign of Winter AP sanctioned content:
Frozen Stars is for characters 11-13, Rasputin must Die is 13-15, The Witch Queen's Revenge is 15-17.
Or just regular modules:
Academy of Secrets is for 12-14...Witchwar Legacy is 16-18...Tomb of the Iron Medusa is 13-15.
Rannan wrote: How should my stat spread be? I'm thinking that as a skill monkey and social butterfly, int and cha should definitely be main stats, but what about str and dex and wis? Any spare points that I can put into con I will because I'd rather not stub my toe and bleed out. Considering you seem to be fine with a support role, your a core bard, and other details, I would go CHA 16 (18) INT 14 CON 14 and the rest is dealers choice. 14 con keeps you alive and helps the weak save. The question will be whether or not to take a negative in one of the other three stats to boost one or both of the other two. I could honestly justify a 7 strength In exchange for a dex and wisdom 12 but that is a preference/choice you will have decide for yourself.
But something to remember always... Even though you will mostly singing, dancing, and casting in battle, if your able to help your party to flank that's essentially another boost to that member. Keep that in mind you decide the remaining stats.
Yeah I'm going to skip improvisation. Just isn't worth the feat imo.
I do plan on trying to flank to help the melee guys out, especially if I'm able to do a successful Distract.
I was also thinking about taking the feat path that would allow me medium or even heavy armor so I can have some more AC and stand a little closer to combat. At least that way I can be less worried about tripping on a rock and dying from a natural 1 or something. I just haven't been able to figure out if that will be worth it in exchange for less feats later. Still looking into that but would appreciate input.
My concern about dumping str is how much I will be able to carry and how it will affect me when I'm carrying very little. I suppose I don't need a ton of items, but my character loadout is usually between 55-75 lbs.
Should I take weapon finesse eventually if I notice I'm doing more melee than originally intended? And what do you guys recommend for a second feat? I was thinking Extra Performance, but I've never played a Bard to know if that will be helpful or if it's just meh. Lingering Performance sounds good too. Or I can take Additional Traits to get more skills or + to more skills. To me there seems to be only a few feats worth it for each level, it's just trying to decide which is going to make me the most useful for the style I want to play. Which is difficult because this is my first Bard/caster.
@Rerednaw: My GM only plans on doing a campaign until we hit 12, I don't think he will be doing games after that so I'd have to find a new group. Luckily PFS allows me to do that without issues, providing I'm documenting correctly.
|
