Reference,
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bag-o f-holding
It doesn't say there is a save for being sucked in, is there some official ruling on this or does it just happen?
James B. Cline wrote: Reference,
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/bag-o f-holding
It doesn't say there is a save for being sucked in, is there some official ruling on this or does it just happen?
IF there's no save listed for the effect, there's no save. You pull this stunt, you're not going to be in Kansas any more.
The adventure I'm running has a trap with it and of course my players want to use a similar technique as an "oh crap" button. They recently got rid of an "evil" artifact by dropping it in a bag and shredding the bag. It was around a +7 or better and they didn't have anything good enough to sunder it.
Various kingdoms should have a couple of bag of holding/portable hole combos in strategic reserve - for when that pesky Tarrasque or <insert uber monster here> shows up to cause havoc.
Deployed and triggered by dimension dooring Simulacra who aren't going to disobey or question your orders.
:-)
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You can also have an unseen servant hold the bag over the hole, then you teleport away. You go out of range, unseen servant ceases to exist, bag falls.
James B. Cline wrote: The adventure I'm running has a trap with it and of course my players want to use a similar technique as an "oh crap" button. They recently got rid of an "evil" artifact by dropping it in a bag and shredding the bag. It was around a +7 or better and they didn't have anything good enough to sunder it.
** spoiler omitted **
The problem is the use of this technique is going to require that at least one PC be sucked in along with said artifact.
Quite frankly after this trick works the first time, the next time they try it, they'll find that when they shred the bag, the McGuffin will simply fall out of it.
When they complain, remind them of the one common trait to all Artifacts... they break the rules.
Dracovar wrote: Various kingdoms should have a couple of bag of holding/portable hole combos in strategic reserve - for when that pesky Tarrasque or <insert uber monster here> shows up to cause havoc.
Deployed and triggered by dimension dooring Simulacra who aren't going to disobey or question your orders.
:-)
The Tarrasque is simply too big, too awesome, too Arnold, to be sucked in by tiny planar vortex.
LazarX wrote: ...after this trick works the first time, the next time they try it, they'll find that when they shred the bag, the McGuffin will simply fall out of it... I'd never house-rule that artifacts immune to being thrown away and forgotten. I love it when a PC says, "Duh! I'm going to throw this extremely deadly magic item into a dimension regularly traversed by powerful outsiders and magicians, and I don't care who finds it!"
Talk about genre blindness!
Though it's really not an issue. This tactic requires the PCs to destroy their own loot - not just their loot but two of the best ways to carry all the rest of their loot. It's a fun thought experiment, but most PCs would rather die a thousand deaths* than go through with such blasphemy.
* Unless, of course, Magik-Mart has portable holes on sale this week.
LazarX wrote: Dracovar wrote: Various kingdoms should have a couple of bag of holding/portable hole combos in strategic reserve - for when that pesky Tarrasque or <insert uber monster here> shows up to cause havoc.
Deployed and triggered by dimension dooring Simulacra who aren't going to disobey or question your orders.
:-)
The Tarrasque is simply too big, too awesome, too Arnold, to be sucked in by tiny planar vortex. I'd read the vortex as RAW - if a creature is close enough to the effect, it gets sucked in. But, ya, I can see your point.
Dracovar wrote: LazarX wrote: Dracovar wrote: Various kingdoms should have a couple of bag of holding/portable hole combos in strategic reserve - for when that pesky Tarrasque or <insert uber monster here> shows up to cause havoc.
Deployed and triggered by dimension dooring Simulacra who aren't going to disobey or question your orders.
:-)
The Tarrasque is simply too big, too awesome, too Arnold, to be sucked in by tiny planar vortex. I'd read the vortex as RAW - if a creature is close enough to the effect, it gets sucked in. But, ya, I can see your point. And I would remind you that RAW is only the beginning foundation of the game, not the be all and end all. Letting it constrain you will fatally hamper you as a GM.
I will tend to side with RAW, with the interpretation that it's a Gate and if the creature isn't small enough to fit, it doesn't go. As far as the players/enemies using it as a weapon, anyone with Plane Shift should be able to return as far as I understand. As far as items, if they want to throw plot items into a hole, I'll let them, unless its going to completely hamper the campaign, and that's where I'd step in. Of course side quests to the Astral might be neat.
Is there anything saying that a creature larger than a gate can't go through it? I mean the gate spell, not a doorway.
So far as I can tell, any attempt to "go through" results in being instantly moved to the other side. This is probably to keep you from trying to cut people in two with a gate.
A creature that is squeezing could choose to go through a gate slightly too small for it, but ordinarily a creature (or object) accidentally brought into contact with a gate doesn't suffer any negative effects. Since being sawn into big bleeding hunks probably counts as a 'negative effect'*, yeah, it seems safe to assume that all you're doing is corking the hole.
* Except among trolls, where "Find The Body Part" is a common party game.
Hmm... How long does this vortex last? If the tarrasque can't fit, would it be stuck there eternally?
Lincoln Hills wrote: A creature that is squeezing could choose to go through a gate slightly too small for it, but ordinarily a creature (or object) accidentally brought into contact with a gate doesn't suffer any negative effects. Since being sawn into big bleeding hunks probably counts as a 'negative effect'*, yeah, it seems safe to assume that all you're doing is corking the hole.
* Except among trolls, where "Find The Body Part" is a common party game.
My read of it was:
The moment any part of you goes through, your entire body appears intact on the other side of the gate.
There is no need to be "squished", you just get teleported.
This seems necessary, because a lot of the things you might want to gate appear to be quite a bit larger than the listed size... Basically, if you actually have a period of physical transition, someone can try to "close the gate while you're halfway through", and if we suck you through like a vacuum, that could also produce injury. And the goal is that the spell is travel-only.
Although I do wonder then why they specify a diameter of 5-20' (caster's choice). Maybe it is intended to be a limitation?
It's about the least imaginative way to get rid of an artifact. And in old rules (talking D&D here), artifects had specific ways of destruction and any attempt or situation that would normally destroy something, like a desintegrate, ten ton weight, etc. etc. would first grant the artifact a saving throw (that usually were considerable) and if that wouldn't help it would simply teleport itself out of harm's way. Artifact in those days were made of divine essence and actually cost immortals permanent power to create and would make an immortal pretty pissed if you succeeded in destroying one. Then again as all immortals usually had enemies as well, no endless stream of vengeance could be send if a rival immortal pledges protection for the transgressors of the rivals artifact. In that case only one attempt at revenge was allowed (and always indirect as immortals do not fight mortals directly, they consider that beneath them and actually policed that as well)
So depending on how diabolical the GM wants to be, even an attempt is usually not appreciated by the artifact as well, as that usually had limited power and consciousness of it's own. But 'revenge' of the artifact may differ from leaving to ending up in the hands of the archenemy of the PC's who is very willing to use it against them.
So while a dimensional vortex is quite dangerous to PC's, usually artifacts are not really affected by them.
Personally, I find the phrase "lost forever" unclear. "You can't get it back without searching the Astral Plane for d% centuries, and another creature is almost certain to find it and take it first" is probably what was meant, but it could just as easily mean "The item is deleted from the game universe without technically being destroyed". Of course, if it's a creature and happens to get caught in the implosion, "lost forever" means that the creature is perfectly fine but will never again be able to find his way out of a broom closet. Curse you, English language!
I prefer, and would use 'the item is deleted from the game universe without being destroyed'.
Sending it far, far away just means it shows up in the next world the PC's play in. Nothing like having an evil artifact pop up that nobody has ever heard of and isn't ready for!
And yes, Gates are more akin to tunnels then to teleports. Wrath of the Righteous specifically has one of the two end bosses Gate in a Hecantoheires Titan...and it has to Squeeze to get through the Gate.
==Aelryinth
Well in this particular instance...
As for lost forever, I assume its drifting out there in the nothing, but someone who wants to find it can use mid-level magic to find it. Honestly the ease of creating these Vortexes (?) would lend me to the idea that if they were so powerful, everyone would use them. So there must be a fairly easy solution. I'm sure a Commune would lead straight to it, now getting to that location may be interesting.
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Or very, very boring...
"Yes. Your spell tells you that the item is slightly to your left, slightly downward, and about 19,000 light-years away."
(That's the possibility that worries me about infinite planes... Huzzah for greater teleport, assuming you can find a way to distinguish one stretch of absolute emptiness from any other!)
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