Does Feral Combat Training affect Constrict

[Archaeik]

Constrict (Ex) wrote:

A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.

Does Constrict also use a Monks augmented damage of the triggering natural attack utilizing FCT?

I really want to say no, since there's typically a listed Constrict damage, but I've seen very few stat blocks where the damage is different, which leads me to think that the general rule I highlighted may apply.

[reyyvin]

Archaeik wrote:

Constrict (Ex) wrote:

A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.

Does Constrict also use a Monks augmented damage of the triggering natural attack utilizing FCT?

I really want to say no, since there's typically a listed Constrict damage, but I've seen very few stat blocks where the damage is different, which leads me to think that the general rule I highlighted may apply.

Feral Combat Training does not work directly with Constrict. Constrict by itself is not an attack (aka, no attack roll associated with it), but something that happens with an attack. Check out the requirements for Feral Combat Training:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/feral-combat-training-combat

Weapon Focus with selected natural attack.

Constrict is something that happens after they make a successful grapple/grab. Also, there is no Weapon Focus Grapple (or Grab), since they are not weapons.

That said, the monk may be able to use their unarmed damage anyway. Constrict is usually based on whatever the grab attack is that triggered it, either bite, tentacle, or tail slap. If the Monk has Weapon Focus Tentacle + FCT and grabs with the tentacle, they use their monk damage with the tentacle and then constrict with the tentacle (doing monk damage).

[Archaeik]

Any other opinions?

I guess what I'm asking is
Is there a case to be made that Constrict damage only increases with size? (or not even then?)

Seems like there is rules support for both interpretations since the listed damage almost always matches the natural weapon with Grab.
That is to say, I would expect Constrict damage to increase with INA/Strong Jaw etc (not just an Enlarge effect)...

If this is a GM call, that's a perfectly acceptable answer, just trying to get additional perspectives.

[Samasboy1]

I agree with reyyvin. Constrict isn't a natural weapon, it is a special attack that triggers off of a natural weapon. But since the damage is normally the same as the natural weapon, FCT could indirectly affect it.

[ShadowcatX]

This really isn't a matter of opinion, constrict isn't an attack, as such feral combat training and flurry of blows doesn't work with it.

[Archaeik]

ShadowcatX wrote:

This really isn't a matter of opinion, constrict isn't an attack, as such feral combat training and flurry of blows doesn't work with it.

If you use FCT to flurry with an attack that has Grab and Constrict, you would indeed get both those attacks when any qualifying FoB attacks hit.

The question is if Constrict damage is tied directly to the damage of the initiating Grab attack or if it's completely independent?
You seem to think it's independent.

[ShadowcatX]

Fact: Attack and constrict are both clearly defined in the rules.
Fact: One is not the other.

[Imbicatus]

From the Universal Monster Rules

Constrict wrote:

Constrict (Ex) A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.

Format: constrict (1d8+6); Location: Special Attacks.

Bolded for emphasis.

If you are getting constrict from grab on a melee attack that is benefiting from an effect that increases the damage, then the constrict damage is likewise increased, as the amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.

[ShadowcatX]

I was entirely misreading the question, sorry. Please ignore my previous answers. (I don't know where my mind was.)