As requested from Mundobot, and i hope a few other are interessted too,
here is my Golem.
Tron (Keywords: Male, Construct, Wargolem)
Strength d12 Melee+2 [][][][]
Dexterity d4 [][]
Constitution –
Intelligence d8 Knowledge+1 Craft+3 [][]
Wisdom d6 [][]
Charisma d6 [][]
Weapons 5 [][]
Spells -
Armor 3 [][]
Items 3 [][][]
Allys – []
Blessings 4 [][]
Power:
Hand 4 []5 []6
Proficiency [X]Weapon [X]Light Armor [X]Heavy Armor
Construct: You automatically succeed at any Constitution Check. You can´t be healed by the normal Cure spell. A Mending spell can be used as a Cure spell on you.
Weapon Platform: You may use Melee in place of Ranged when using a weapon with the Ranged trait.
Scrap Metal: When you play a weapon, you may recharge it ([] shuffle it in your deck) instead of discarding it. When you play an Armor, you may discard ([]recharge) it instead of burying it.
Rolecards:
Engine of Destruction:
Hand 4 []5 []6
Proficiency [X]Weapon [X]Light Armor [X]Heavy Armor
Construct: You automatically succeed at any Constitution Check. You can´t be healed by the normal Cure spell. A Mending spell can be used as a Cure spell on you.
Weapon Platform: You may use Melee in place of Ranged when using a weapon with the Ranged trait.
Scrap Metal: When you play a weapon, you may recharge it ([] shuffle it in your deck) instead of discarding it. When you play an Armor, you may discard ([]recharge) it instead of burying it.
[] Adamant Plating: Reduce Damage dealt to you by 1 ([] 2).
[] Arsenal: Add 2 ([] 4) to a check to aquire a weapon ([] double that bonus for a weapon with the Ranged trait).
[] Tactical Analysis: At the end ([] start) of your turn, examine the top ([] and bottom) card of your location deck.
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Tinker:
Hand 4 []5 []6
Proficiency [X]Weapon [X]Light Armor [X]Heavy Armor
Construct: You automatically succeed at any Constitution Check. You can´t be healed by the normal Cure spell. A Mending spell can be used as a Cure spell on you.
Weapon Platform: You may use Melee in place of Ranged when using a weapon with the Ranged trait.
Scrap Metal: When you play a weapon, you may recharge it ([] shuffle it in your deck) instead of discarding it. When you play an Armor, you may discard ([]recharge) it instead of burying it.
[] Reconfigure: At the start of your turn ([] once per turn), you may recharge a card to exchange the dices of two of your Attributes. They stay this way until you use this power again or the end of the scenario.
[] Selfrepair: You may bury a weapon or armor to shuffle 1d4 ([]+1)([]+2)([]+3) random cards from your discard pile into your deck.
[] Instable Matter: For your combat check, you may discard a item to roll your Intelligence or Craft die + 1d8 +2 ([]+3) with the fire and magic trait. This counts as playing a weapon.
For anyone that wants to count, i accounted the Constitution with a D8 and 3 skill feat boxes. Thats the reason they are missing.
As i said in another thread, as a golem he doesn´t have a life force and will never get tired. Thats the reason he succeeds at every Con or Fort check, but can´t be healed in normal ways.
Because he can´t be healed, i gave him a ability to not lose much of his cards, even when he uses them (weapons and armors).
His first role is focused purely on destroying everything that stands in his way, kind of like a Terminator.
His secound role is more about optimising himself and building stuff.
So, one is destruction one is creation.
I hope you like him, and tell my what you think.
Some really interesting ideas - just on a practical note, how would you track the swapped dice on the reconfigure ability? I really like the idea, but I can see it getting confusing to keep track of.
It'd also be interesting to work out how the Reconfigure would work with bonuses: If I swap strength with Intelligence, is my "craft" now D12 +3?
If I take 2 skill feats on my wisdom, and then swap strength and wisdom, is my wisdom just D12,or is it D12+2 (with presumably strength becoming either D6+2 or just D6 respectively.
As a custom character, it doesn't need to be as watertight with the wording as an official one (it's not going to be used by thousands of people who aren't reading this thread) but it might be useful to clarify?
Hmm. Do constructs have gender?
"weapon platform" seems like it should just be for the destruction role
perhaps start with the self repair function? It could cost your first exploration to use.
Feels like he should have more weaknesses. Like prone to Acid or Fire damage.
This guy needs like a blacksmith ally that functions similar to the mending spell. that'd be sweet
Either way I like it. Makes me think of General TickTock from that Rumo book.
@MightyJim My idea was that you just swap the die, the "skills" like craft or anything you put points in stay where they are.
So, yes, craft woul be D12+3 and your wisdom would be a D12+2 with a strength of a D6.
And i would suggest a piece of paper and a pen. If someone comes up with a better idea, let me know, im really interessted in better tracking.
@Mundobot Mine has.^^
I chose this way to especially not give him a way to heal at the start, so you really have to think about what you do, kind of resource managment.
And i gave him Weapon Platform because of teamplay reasons. Other characters have to give the ranged weapons to him, because with a D4, he wont get them himself.
And having ranged weapons in hand is his best way to get a little cyling into his deck (by helping other combats by shoting over there).
Cool concept! There was clearly a lot of design work, and it shows. I hope you try him out, as I'd love to hear how he plays. Below are some initial thoughts and concerns I have, but overall, I love the idea.
1. For the cure restriction, I see one issue. How are you defining a 'normal cure spell'? Is it just the spell cure, or do you also count major and mass cure? Does Kyra's or Seelah's power count? Staff of minor healing? I'm not sure if it needs to be more or less restrictive...
2. I think d8+3 actually underestimates how good that fort is (it's more like d[infinity]). So, if he can recharge armor to take no damage, and can pick up any armor encountered, he really will be effectively immortal. Also, if you give him a d8 Con, that still would give him 44 total dice, plus 3 free skill feats.
3. "Composite" Longbows (the ones that use Strength die) are going to be absurdly good with him, as he will be rolling 2d12+3 at least. Combined with the Con strength, I'd drop his strength to d10, which will still be very good, but not blowing people away. (It'll be slightly worse than Valeros's, but he has to spend a feat while in a role to get that).
4. This guy will not explore much at all. 4 blessings and no allies means he has fewer starting explores than anyone but Ezren, and Ez has a very powerful exploration power to make up for it. I'm worried that this may end up making him boring for his player, since most turns will be explore/combat or acquisition(possibly an automatic success)/pass.
Constructs in the game can't be targeted by Attacks spells. So perhaps instead of the cure bit, he can't be affected by powers like the Enchanters, Gogmort, Black Fang, etc?
@isaic as i stated in another thread, all my chars a played till the end of AP3. So yes, i tested him.
1) I could have worded that better. What i meant was that Mending (and his own role power) are the only way he can be healed.
2) Yes infinite Consti is powerful, but not having any real option to heal yourself evens it out in my opinion. And i didn´t notice it was 44, i was quite sure that i had given him 42 (with the D8). But you are right, sometimes counting get lost in the process of creating awesomeness.^^
And another thing is, most of the Consti checks are either for Armors, with which he should be good, as he is technically a walking armor. And the other are movement restrictions. And in my eyes, he is a glacier, really slow, but you can´t stop him. So i think it´s really fitting. (The few occasions where a Consti check would prevent damage, he could have used an armor anyway.)
3)Oh yes, he hits like a truck with longbows. The drawback is that he can´t get them himself. And you are right that dropping his Strength to a D10 would be the easiest solution to the 44 problem. I played him like this till now, so i will most likely not change it, but if anyone of you want to try him with a D10 Strength, fell free to go and tell me the results afterward.
4)He is the slowest thing you will ever see. D4 Dex and not much extra explores, and when he extra explores, he will not get that cards back. So yes, he is a mixed bag of extremes.
And about the design work. He is one of my later chars. So i had a bit of practice before him and hammered him out in around 2h.
@Mundobot, i know that Construct are immune to such magic, but that would be in my opinion much to powerful. So i just cut that aspect.
Overall, I think you do an excellect job of simulating a golem. Here are a few suggestions that I think may help shore up some of your ideas:
I would drop the initial hand size max from 6 to 5 and make the "weapon platform" ability a checkbox, since most characters only have 2 powers and the other two are more iconic to being a golem.
As far as your roles go, I would recommend the following changes (including incorporating my suggestions from above):
Engine of Destruction:
Hand 4 []5
Proficiency [X]Weapon [X]Light Armor [X]Heavy Armor
Construct: You automatically succeed at any Constitution Check. You can´t be healed by the normal Cure spell. A Mending spell can be used as a Cure spell on you.
[]Weapon Platform: You may use Melee in place of Ranged when using a weapon with the Ranged trait.
Scrap Metal: When you play a weapon, you may recharge it ([] shuffle it in your deck) instead of discarding it. When you play an Armor, you may discard ([]recharge) it instead of burying it.
[] Adamant Plating: Reduce Damage dealt to you by 1 ([] 2).
[] Arsenal: Add 2 ([] 4) to a check to acquire a weapon
[] On the first combat ([]check to defeat)([]check to defeat or acquire)of a turn, you may roll twice and take the higher of the two results.
[] You may apply the 2 dice benefit of the blessing of Gorum to your ranged combat checks.
.......................................................................
Tinker:
Hand 4 []5 []6
Proficiency [X]Weapon [X]Light Armor [X]Heavy Armor
Construct: You automatically succeed at any Constitution Check. You can´t be healed by the normal Cure spell. A Mending spell can be used as a Cure spell on you.
[]Weapon Platform: You may use Melee in place of Ranged when using a weapon with the Ranged trait.
Scrap Metal: When you play a weapon, you may recharge it ([] shuffle it in your deck) instead of discarding it. When you play an Armor, you may discard ([]recharge) it instead of burying it.
[] Once ([]twice) per turn, you can use your strength die in place of the die for any check.
[] Selfrepair: You may recharge a weapon or armor to recharge a card from your discard pile into your deck.
[]You may bury ([]discard) a card to draw a card.
[]At the beginning of you turn, you may discard a weapon, armor, or item to take a card of the same type from your discard pile.
[]You may apply the 2 dice benefit of the blessing of Gorum to your ranged combat checks.
@Vrog Skyreaver We just don´t seem to operate on the same wavelength.
First of, i see Construct more of a racial trait than a power, but this is the only way to simulate it in this game. So actually he just has 2 powers.
Engine of Destruction:
Changing the Arsenal to what you did would make it utterly useless. Because if fully skilled, he could have gotten bows for himself. With a maximum of 8, that wont be happening.
Rolling twice is something bad if you add a lot of dice, so that gets convoluted.
And adding blessing powers to his kit just seems wrong to me. He´s not that religis to get something extra from the gods. He a machine (and i know one could argue that he shouldn´t have blessings then. But having a few blessing and no allys seemed reasinabler to me.)
Tinker:
Using strength for something, and swaping your dice are completly different thing. Because if you swap, you are stuck that way till you can sway again. So much more thought have to go into using it.
And the rest of your suggestion are only resulting in a lot of deck cycling, which he shouldn´t be doing because he is freaking slow.
Thank you for your time and your suggestion anyway, i really like them, they just don´t click with me.
while I agree that in the RPG a construct is a racial trait, in the card game the "construct" keyword doesn't have any inherent meaning, ergo you do actually have 3 powers. As I said before, most characters have 2 powers, with the exception of Ezren (2 normal powers plus a [] for a 3rd) and Lini (3 powers outright.) Given that your powers are on the more powerful swing of things (auto-succeed at a stat check, using a power that is a role card power for valeros, and having a upgunned version of a core valeros power), you might wanna consider toning it down a bit, whichever way you go.
notes on my ideas for roles:
the arsenal ability is not as useful as you might think, especially after part 3 plus where you can start taking non-basic cards instead of basic ones. As there are only the frost longbow +1 (deck 3), longbow part b/c), longbow +1 (1), shock longbow +1 (b) in terms of bows, almost all of them can be taken part 3+ (the frost longbow alone is the exception to that rule). I will concede that there are higher deck ranged weapons in general, but if you're shooting for longbows, this will eventually become a non-issue.
I changed tactical analysis because it didn't seem to thematically sit well with the "engine of destruction" role. While a good ability, it doesn't say "I destroy things" like the (really evocative) role title does.
Reconfigure seems complex to me, and seems to less fit the theme of golem (a creature that is immutable in the extreme). Additionally, you could (in theory) swap out a stat for your (non-existant) con, meaning that your golem A) would be alive, and B) couldn't succeed on another ability. You might be better off simulating the golem's magic immunity instead.
Self-repair is ultimately self-defeating, cause you could only use it 12 times total, then you would be beating things with your bare hands. I changed it the way that I did to mimic more of a "regeneration/fast healing" sort of effect, something that you could do as long as you had cards in your hand.
Instable Matter is should at the very least be your craft die +1d6, as that is in line with other such abilities (seoni's immediately springs to mind).
Given your lack if ability to heal yourself, you should lean away from abilities that force you to discard cards, going with recharge abilities makes more sense, and would help you keep from decking yourself.
The decision how to best use the resources you are given is the main point of his mechanics. Making a choice you don´t have to think at least twice about would defeat that purpose.
And as i said before, Construct as a "power" is the only way to simulate it. And having the argueable weakest skill in the game on auto-success for not being able to be healed, that definitly evens the rest out for me.
How do you just take weapons? I have a hell of a hard time banishing any weapon that came in my possession. And if i´m not short a weapon, i can´t just take one.
And analysing the enemy to be prepared to have the right tools for the job to wreck his face. That says destruction to me. As i said before, he is all about decision, no brainless killing machine. So analysing the enemy to lock onto them fits perfectly for me.
And yes, you could swap Consti as it is now, but why would you want to do that? As i said, intelligent decisions. And that can easily be fixes by excluding Constitution in that power.
[] Reconfigure: At the start of your turn ([] once per turn), you may recharge a card to exchange the dices of two of your Attributes, except Constitution. They stay this way until you use this power again or the end of the scenario.
But your are absolutly right about the complex part of this power.
And why do you think that rerouting his power or reforging his chassis wouldn´t fit to a golem?
If you need to heal yourself more than 12 times in a scenario, what the hell are you doing? I played him till the end of AP3 without a single heal. So it should be possible to stay under 12 times in one scenario.
And about Instable Matter. You completly ignored that Seoni has a D12 and he has a D8(yes you could switch it, put that means you just put two power feats on your role card to get a little bit better than a starting char). She has it from the get go, he only on his role card. So no, it doesn´t hit hard than Seoni.
And as i already said a couple of times, his mechanics are all about carefully managing your resources and second guessing every desicion you make if it really is the most optimal.
If anything of this should sound offensive, i´m apologising for it in advance.
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I think all three of the powers are overpowered.
@Calthaer I don´t get the reference.
@gallinule Try him out. Not being able to heal pretty much evens it out, because you almost never have spare resources for any buffs.
I tested him for 3 APs, and i wouldn´t call him too overpowered. Because he is really slow, he don´t has that great of an impact in the long run of the game. From the 8 characters i´ve build, i would only really call one of them overpowered, and Tron is not it.
And i think this is an interessting social experiment. People seem to be much more interessted in an artificial lifeform than in a werewolf.
p.s: Where i´m from it´s a new day. So send me a pm which char you guys want so see next.
The decision how to best use the resources you are given is the main point of his mechanics. Making a choice you don´t have to think at least twice about would defeat that purpose.
And as i said before, Construct as a "power" is the only way to simulate it. And having the argueable weakest skill in the game on auto-success for not being able to be healed, that definitly evens the rest out for me.
there are some fights that require a con check to avoid taking damage. this means you autopass those. Doing this is not a trivial thing.
How do you just take weapons? I have a hell of a hard time banishing any weapon that came in my possession. And if i´m not short a weapon, i can´t just take one.
Read the card for the adventure path. I don't have mine on me at the moment, but it talks about what I'm talking about. then think about the fact that you can rebuild your deck with all the cards you have access to between adventures.
And analysing the enemy to be prepared to have the right tools for the job to wreck his face. That says destruction to me. As i said before, he is all about decision, no brainless killing machine. So analysing the enemy to lock onto them fits perfectly for me.
I dunno, that says more Reed Richards/Mr. Fantastic than hulk to me.
And yes, you could swap Consti as it is now, but why would you want to do that? As i said, intelligent decisions. And that can easily be fixes by excluding Constitution in that power.
Because you might assume that the power changes attribute as well. I get that it wouldn't, but I also get that someone not as astute/who wanted to cheat could make that justification to autopass all combat checks, with the cost of a card spent before making the check. Again, not I, but an unscrupulous person could definitely consider it.
But your are absolutly right about the complex part of this power.
And why do you think that rerouting his power or reforging his chassis wouldn´t fit to a golem?
I can't think of a golem in the rpg who can change it's form (definitely could be one, but none of the common or uncommon ones that I can think of do). Golems are what they are, and even magic can't really change them once their created (because for the most part, they're immune to it).
If you need to heal yourself more than 12 times in a scenario, what the hell are you doing? I played him till the end of AP3 without a single heal. So it should be possible to stay under 12 times in one scenario.
So you didn't encounter a single enchantress? that would be two separate instances of damage. Several of the goblin cards deal damage either before or after the encounter.
And about Instable Matter. You completly ignored that Seoni has a D12 and he has a D8(yes you could switch it, put that means you just put two power feats on your role card to get a little bit better than a starting char). She has it from the get go, he only on his role card. So no, it doesn´t hit hard than Seoni.
a seoni with all Cha check boxes and all check boxes on her role card checked out will do an average of 7.5+3.5+8=19. With your ability as written, and assuming all check boxes checked, you do an average of 4.5+4.5+10=19. that's without swapping your stat, which would up the average to 22.
Point 1) i already stated that in an earlier post.
Point 2) Yes, the card stats that you can take better cards upwards of AP3. But to take a card at the end of a scenario, you have to be a card short, and no one else has picked up a card of that type during the scenario. Only if that happens, then you can take from the box what you want. And i don´t know how to get short of weapons to just take them. Normaly you don´t banish them to use them.
Point 3) I never said he was a hulk. Killing machine yes, sensless collaterals, no.
Point 4) Fixed this in an earlier post. And yes, someone could have argued that you auto-succeed at whatever you switch for Consti. Didn´t even come to my mind. Thank you for that.
Point 5) I just started playing Pathfinder RPG after i already build this character, so i can´t say if there is one that can change like that or not. It just fits to a tinkerer for me.
Point 6)I did encounter them, and at the end of every scenario i´m normaly under 5 cards in my draw deck. But needing to heal 12 times in one scenario seems kind of excessive. Because you most likly will not heal for just 1 card every time.
Point 7) Your math seems kind of off here.
Where does the +10 in your calculation come from? He has craft +3, can put a maximum of 2 skill feats in Int, and the ability maxes at +3. That sums up to a 8 for me. So, 4.5+4.5+8=17 and thats weaker than Seonis. Also the average of a D12 is 6.5 not 7.5. And Seoni can get +10 on both of her role cards, so she can get to an average of 20. Even with switching, he can´t get above an average of 19.
Point 2) Yes, the card stats that you can take better cards upwards of AP3. But to take a card at the end of a scenario, you have to be a card short, and no one else has picked up a card of that type during the scenario. Only if that happens, then you can take from the box what you want. And i don´t know how to get short of weapons to just take them. Normaly you don´t banish them to use them.
true, but there are plenty of locations that require you to banish a card, plus you may want to take another weapon as a card feat at some point.
Point 3) I never said he was a hulk. Killing machine yes, sensless collaterals, no.
I get what you're saying. I even think that is a good ability. I just feel that there are better things that you could do to fit the theme.
Point 4) Fixed this in an earlier post. And yes, someone could have argued that you auto-succeed at whatever you switch for Consti. Didn´t even come to my mind. Thank you for that.
You're welcome. I certainly get what you meant, and the power specifically mentions Con, but some people will try to get whatever they can.
Point 5) I just started playing Pathfinder RPG after i already build this character, so i can´t say if there is one that can change like that or not. It just fits to a tinkerer for me.
Certainly it does. I just think there might be a simpler way to accomplish what you're trying to do without the need to track changed stats and whatnot.
Point 6)I did encounter them, and at the end of every scenario i´m normaly under 5 cards in my draw deck. But needing to heal 12 times in one scenario seems kind of excessive. Because you most likly will not heal for just 1 card every time.
Depends on your method of healing. some people heal consistently (Kyra jumps to mind immediately) and some people heal sporadically (meresiel with healing items). The first kind of character will heal a lot more than the second. Depending on how location decks and dice play out, you may end up taking a bunch of damage really quickly, without having a real chance to heal (or you might not draw any healing items/weapons/armor).
Point 7) Your math seems kind of off here.
You're right that my math was off. mainly I added the bonus for your role power together instead of just increasing it, and I was one point average higher in the d12 (I think I was thinking about PFS hp at the time). Still, the abilities are none-so-different, and with you recharging a card, about as good with a secondary combat ability than Seoni is with what is often her primary combat ability. That seems a might strong to me.
Short notice about point 6 and 7.
6) He would be one of the consistently like Kyra, just with less bonis. So it should be compared to her ability, and i don´t think she would heal herself 12 times in on scenario.
7) You must have remembered the power wrong. You have to discard an item to get the effect. Not just recharge something.
6) except you use your weapons and armor to heal, as opposed to Kyra using any card with the divine trait; Having played her a decent amount, I can say that there have definitely been scenarios where I have healed myself more than 12 times.
7) I meant the recharge to change your int die to 1d12.
6)Now you got me interessted. Which scenarios where they, and what was your team composition? (I haven´t gotten AP5 yet. So please, no major spoilers.)
7)Oh, ok, my bad.
It' mostly just situation dependant. like if I lose my hand to damage, I will usually spend 1-2 turns healing myself, so that I can try and get the cards I lost back into circulation. As a play style, I tend to be more of a "heal cards back" type of player, and less of a "negate the damage in the first place" type of player. That means that during a game, I will tend to heal every 2-3 turns, although that number can definitely rise based on what I have encountered (I've had a scenario where I encountered an enchanter, failed to beat it, explored again and found her again, and then failed to beat her again. I spent a turn healing up, then found her again. and lost...again.
That's an example of a bad situation that can happen. I eventually won the scenario, but would have died if I couldn't burn my first exploration to heal with Kyra.