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Allow me to introduce you to Al.
Al is a multiclassed barbarian druid I built for fun to see what shenanigans I can pull with overrun. I left most of Al's gear unfinished since I only cared about how much run I can over.
I like overrun. It's kind of an unsung hero and one of those things often missed from my repertoire of cinematic things I like to do in games. BEcause nothing makes the dread necromancers face paler than seeing the party warrior literally stomp through a horde of minions to full stop with his spiked boots of the mastodon on his scrotum.
First the important bits.
The Moving parts.
Overbearing Onslaught: This allows us to overrun multiple creatures while raging each additional creature after the first reduces the CMB by 2. But, given the absolutely ridiculous CMB we will have this is a non-issue.
Spiked Destroyer: Gives us a free armor spike attack on the first overrun target. Extra attacks are good.
Wild Shape: Get into Allosaurus form so I can pounce and get some nifty natural attacks to go along with my body slams. Ultimately allows me to get Huge and when combined with my armor lets me act like I'm bigger. SAurian shaman and Shaping focus lets me wild shape using my full character level.
Imp OVerrun/Greater Overrun: Lets me overrun things and get AoO's off.
Titanic dragon hide armor: This armor is put on after I wild shape by servants/slaves of Al.
My stealth check is -13: You hear the truck coming.
How the truck runs things over.
One target between me and pounce target.: Charge through lets me push over the other guy and deal an AoO + An Armor Spike Attack + Strength Damage.
Multiple things between me and my best friend.: OVerrun the lot of the including my target. I only wish I could armor spike them all. I do deal strength damage at least, plus I can AoO most of them, though I'll save the last one for my actual target ater I've knocked him prone.
Numbers.
So, with Titanic dragon hide and huge size I can overrun like a gargantuan creature or use its ability to overrun like a collossal one.
My CMB after wild shape and rage looks like
12 BAB + 12 Strength + 1 trait +4 Feats +2 Enhancement +2 Boots +2 Reckless Abandon +2 Charge = 37 CMB
So without any spells or power attack so far the truck can run over just about everything of his CR. Strength Surge can push this to 43. True Strike can push this further to 63. If I add the armor in on this as well I can push to 79. At that range the Truck can run over the Tarrasque.
His armor spikes will deal damage as a huge critter for about 2d6+18.
Not a lot in terms of damage but I can still power attack if I choose and most targets will take multiple spike attacks and extra damage from overbearing advance and the point isn't to deal damage. Damage is what happens to the guy on the other end who will typically eat full attacks in the form of natural attacks + spike attacks.
So, right now we have a heavily armored allosaurus that starts out being treated as gargantuan and can potentially be treated as collossal. I've spent all but about 40,000gp (no cloak or rings bought yet) but for the moment I'm wondering if we can't make the truck more efficient. Are there better options then spiked destroyer and armor spikes to punish targets getting overrun?
Can we get similar results with a synthesist? Some alchemist levels? Can we get an oracle level in here so we can rage cycle? What of blood ragers?
And what other things can we do with overrun? Let's see some ideas. I'm going to bed.
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I did something similar but with maneuver master 3/lore warden 7 plus I added improved grapple. I call him the Rugger (a term for a rugby player).
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=877575
Overrun really is a fantastic maneuver that I had completely forgotten until recently. A +32 to overrun. Medium sized dwarf. I didn't add weapon training bonus in because I wasn't sure if it would count for overrun.
+14 base (Bab+str), +1 (maneuver training), +2 (Imp overrun), +2 (greater overrun), +2 (relentless dwarf), +1 (bigboned tiefling), +2 (tribal scars:great tusk), +2 boots of mastodon,+2 gauntlets of skilled maneuver(overrun), +4 (lore warden: maneuver mastery).
So that's +32 unbuffed. You can boost it by enlarging and I! Sure a few more spells but for a 10th level character you should be able to overrun just about everything and generate lots of AOO while still being able to grapple the sadsack caster at the end of the charge.
Unclear. It's not clear what it would mean to be prone while flying and the rule that you can't trip a flying creature implies that it may not be possible.
A synthesist summoner can't wear armor (so no spikes) and doesn't have relevant evolutions other than size. I think it'd work better with a mount eidolon. With the eidolon getting the overrun feats and the summoner getting mounted feats including trample, and casting buffs, you could get some synergy.
A synthesist summoner can't wear armor (so no spikes) and doesn't have relevant evolutions other than size. I think it'd work better with a mount eidolon. With the eidolon getting the overrun feats and the summoner getting mounted feats including trample, and casting buffs, you could get some synergy.
The lack of spikes just means no free attack with spiked destroyer. WE can replace it with Elephant stomp and reserve it for the last overrun in a chain rather than the first.
A synthesist summoner can't wear armor (so no spikes) and doesn't have relevant evolutions other than size. I think it'd work better with a mount eidolon. With the eidolon getting the overrun feats and the summoner getting mounted feats including trample, and casting buffs, you could get some synergy.The lack of spikes just means no free attack with spiked destroyer. WE can replace it with Elephant stomp and reserve it for the last overrun in a chain rather than the first.
I could have missed it, but did you add the bonus to your CMB from being gargantuan? It's an extra +4... As if you need it.
Can't over run more than one target while using charge through. The feat says one overrun attempt. Nees to remember changes that let you do multiple overrun wont change this because charge through isn't just changing how overrun works but changing the targeting rules for charge.
Can't over run more than one target while using charge through. The feat says one overrun attempt. Nees to remember changes that let you do multiple overrun wont change this because charge through isn't just changing how overrun works but changing the targeting rules for charge.
I'm aware. That's why we have Overbearing Onslaught to overrun multiple people at once when charge through isn't feasible.
I think I left out the bonus from size to CMB because its cancelled out by the penalty to attack rolls imposed by size.
Can't over run more than one target while using charge through. The feat says one overrun attempt. Nees to remember changes that let you do multiple overrun wont change this because charge through isn't just changing how overrun works but changing the targeting rules for charge.I'm aware. That's why we have Overbearing Onslaught to overrun multiple people at once when charge through isn't feasible.
I think I left out the bonus from size to CMB because its cancelled out by the penalty to attack rolls imposed by size.
Ah, okay, that makes sense.
Can't over run more than one target while using charge through. The feat says one overrun attempt. Nees to remember changes that let you do multiple overrun wont change this because charge through isn't just changing how overrun works but changing the targeting rules for charge.I'm aware. That's why we have Overbearing Onslaught to overrun multiple people at once when charge through isn't feasible.
I think I left out the bonus from size to CMB because its cancelled out by the penalty to attack rolls imposed by size.
I think you ignore the size penalty to hit ehen calculating cmb/cmd but I'm not sure where that is explained.
I think you ignore the size penalty to hit ehen calculating cmb/cmd but I'm not sure where that is explained.Can't over run more than one target while using charge through. The feat says one overrun attempt. Nees to remember changes that let you do multiple overrun wont change this because charge through isn't just changing how overrun works but changing the targeting rules for charge.I'm aware. That's why we have Overbearing Onslaught to overrun multiple people at once when charge through isn't feasible.
I think I left out the bonus from size to CMB because its cancelled out by the penalty to attack rolls imposed by size.
I'm not so sure. All penalties and bonuses to attack apply to CMB. When I was reading on it the only real benefit that big creatures got were the expanded ranges they could maneuver people and bonuses to CMD.
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... I think you ignore the size penalty to hit ehen calculating cmb/cmd but I'm not sure where that is explained.I'm not so sure. All penalties and bonuses to attack apply to CMB. When I was reading on it the only real benefit that big creatures got were the expanded ranges they could maneuver people and bonuses to CMD.
Looking over it, I'm pretty sure you lose the size penalty to attack and gain the special size bonus to CMB. This because "special size modifier" in the basic CMB formula takes the place of "size modifier" in the basic attack formula (basic formulas = the big, bolded, centered formulas that explain initial calculation of attack bonus and CMB), and these are swapped before other modifiers and penalties that apply to attacks are calculated.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
So it looks like size modifiers are accounted for in the initial swap (CMB in place of your normal attack bonus), and then other modifiers apply. (Checking at least the Ogre stats, this is how the CMB is calculated. I'm sure other monsters in the Bestiary would confirm.)
[Added: Fun build!]
A synthesist summoner can't wear armor (so no spikes) and doesn't have relevant evolutions other than size. I think it'd work better with a mount eidolon. With the eidolon getting the overrun feats and the summoner getting mounted feats including trample, and casting buffs, you could get some synergy.The lack of spikes just means no free attack with spiked destroyer. WE can replace it with Elephant stomp and reserve it for the last overrun in a chain rather than the first.
It is not Elephant stomp like a totally worthless feat?
I'm not so sure. All penalties and bonuses to attack apply to CMB. When I was reading on it the only real benefit that big creatures got were the expanded ranges they could maneuver people and bonuses to CMD.I think you ignore the size penalty to hit ehen calculating cmb/cmd but I'm not sure where that is explained.Can't over run more than one target while using charge through. The feat says one overrun attempt. Nees to remember changes that let you do multiple overrun wont change this because charge through isn't just changing how overrun works but changing the targeting rules for charge.I'm aware. That's why we have Overbearing Onslaught to overrun multiple people at once when charge through isn't feasible.
I think I left out the bonus from size to CMB because its cancelled out by the penalty to attack rolls imposed by size.
That is what the text says, it is confusing but it is not how it actually works. See for example all the monsters in the bestiaries. You just use the bonus/penalty to CMB/CMD and not the penalty/bonus to attack. So halflings have a size penalty to CMD/CMB despite thet fact that they gain a size bonus to attack.
It is not Elephant stomp like a totally worthless feat?A synthesist summoner can't wear armor (so no spikes) and doesn't have relevant evolutions other than size. I think it'd work better with a mount eidolon. With the eidolon getting the overrun feats and the summoner getting mounted feats including trample, and casting buffs, you could get some synergy.The lack of spikes just means no free attack with spiked destroyer. WE can replace it with Elephant stomp and reserve it for the last overrun in a chain rather than the first.
You're right I think. This is what drugs at 3am in the morning does kids.
I'm sure there's some other way we cna get a free attack with our overrun other than greater overrun. LEt's dig a bit.
Feral Combat Training + Vicious Stomp?
I had a similar idea that went Barbarian (brutal pugilist)/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple to turn into a dragon and just kaiju around the battlefield. :) Never actually tried it though. I really like the idea of druid with armor made for your beast form, though - never thought of that.
Vicious stomp was the feat I was thinking of! Thank you.
If someone goes prone due to you overrunning them, are they really adjacent to you (Vicious Stomp)?
As a GM I'd rule yes. Technically probably not. But given the idea behind the feat is that you are smashing an opponent when they fall to the ground it makes sense that it would trigger during an overrun.
The adjacency language was likely added so you couldn't trip someoen from a number of feet away adn then suddenly grow stretchy arms.
HEre's another build. I put away spiked destroyer in favor of synthesist shenanigans.
High speed and flight will let us overrun more dudes.
Wiht this build while raging I can get a CMB of
13 BAB + 13 Strength + 2 Reckless Assault + 5 Death from Above Charge + 1 Size + 1 Traits + 4 MAgic items + 5 Heroism = 44 CMB
If I can make myself huge that would be a boon. Overall damage is probably a lot higher.
I think I'll do away with naturla jouster simply so I can greatsword people on the ground.