what happens when you cast create pit on a mounted creature?

[ohako]

a) Do both the mounted creature and the mount need to make saving throws? Or just the mount?

b) If both creatures need to make the save, and your mount makes it but you don't, can you perform a stay in saddle (Ride DC 5, no action) to stay mounted and safe from the pit?

c) If both creatures need to make the save, and you make it but your mount doesn't, could you try doing a 'Catch a Falling Character While Climbing' climb maneuver? I know this is improbable with a horse, but it's not as improbable with a riding dog or wolf.

d) create pit creates a 10'x10' hole. This means that you're always next to an edge of the area of effect. Could you perform a fast dismount (Ride DC 20, a free action) to put yourself in the adjacent square that wasn't targeted (although being on the edge means you have to move away from the pit at the end of your turn) and leave your poor mount to make the saving throw? Could you try that after you've found out if you've both failed the saving throw?

e) If you manage to pull off option d, can you then try for option c? :)

[thorin001]

Q:
What happens when you cast create pit on a mounted creature?

A:
Good times.

[Dave Justus]

Someone who is not walking on the ground clearly doesn't have to make a reflex saving throw to avoid falling in a pit. If your mount makes it, you are fine.

I don't believe their is anything clearly stated on what choice you have if your mount fails. Clearly, you could try to catch yourself while falling. Additionally it seems reasonable that you could do a free dismount and then your own save as you land on the sloped area adjacent to the pit (even though you are technically not ending your turn their, you are ending their after a motion so I would require a save immediately).

Catching your mount seems problematic. Even if it is within your heavy load, you have to be beneath or adjacent to someone who falls. The mount obviously starts our beneath you, although you are also occupying the same space, after you have done whatever you have done so you don't fall yourself, being on the edge of a pit or catching yourself or whatever, the mount is clearly going to be below you.

[Jiggy]

Create Pit wrote:

Any creature standing in the area where you first conjured the pit must make a Reflex saving throw to jump to safety in the nearest open space.

Is the rider "standing in the area"? Nope. I'd say no save for him, just for the mount. Presumably, he'll end up going wherever the mount goes.

As for jumping off your doomed mount Super Mario World style, free actions—like most actions—can only be taken on your turn unless otherwise specified. No dismounting off-turn unless you have a special ability letting you do so as an immediate action.

[thorin001]

A) Only the creature standing gets a save, so the mount. The rider is just along for the ride.

B) NA
Actually you probably do not want to stay mounted as your mount is now prone. In addition you may suffer the normal damage from your mount dropping.

C) NA

D) No. You must have the move action available to attempt a fast dismount, and you do not have that during someone else's turn.

E) NA

[Zedth]

Jiggy wrote:

As for jumping off your doomed mount Super Mario World style,

poor Yoshi! He's always taking one for the team.

[Dave Justus]

From mounted combat: If Your Mount Falls in Battle: If your mount falls, you have to succeed on a DC 15 Ride check to make a soft fall and take no damage. If the check fails, you take 1d6 points of damage.

Now the fall here is like a fallen soldier, not falling down a pit, but the basic idea that it is possible to get off your mount when it isn't your turn remains.

[Jiggy]

Zedth wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

As for jumping off your doomed mount Super Mario World style,

poor Yoshi! He's always taking one for the team Mario.

Fixed that for you. Mario's no team, he's a selfish jerk. ;)

[Jiggy]

Dave Justus wrote:

From mounted combat: If Your Mount Falls in Battle: If your mount falls, you have to succeed on a DC 15 Ride check to make a soft fall and take no damage. If the check fails, you take 1d6 points of damage.

Now the fall here is like a fallen soldier, not falling down a pit, but the basic idea that it is possible to get off your mount when it isn't your turn remains.

I don't see anything in the rule you quoted that indicates you actually get off your mount. All I see is softening the impact to prevent some damage.

[Lincoln Hills]

Interesting catch, though. Once it's removed from the context of the surrounding rules, it makes it sound like you could fall out of orbit on your horse and you'd only risk 1d6 damage. Sole survivor: the cavalier. ;)

[ohako]

so, the consensus is that if a mage casts create pit under your mount, then your mount, if it makes a successful Reflex save, can jump to safety and take you with it (with a possible Mario/Yoshi vibe going on).

So, say your mount has evasion (which many animal companions get), but you don't. If you're both subjected to a fireball while you're mounted, then you can save for at best half damage, but your mount can save to negate?

In one case, your mount's reflexes directly impact whether or not you fall into a pit. In the other case, your mount's reflexes mean nothing to you, and you get roasted or toasted purely on your own merits.

Right?

[Gauss]

I feel the Ride skill will provide guidance here.
Falling into a pit should qualify as a situation where you are thrown from the saddle (similar to rearing up). So the rider can choose to make the "Stay in Saddle" check or even choose to fail it. If the rider chooses to fail the check he can then try to make the reflex save since he would now be subject to the pit.

So, based on that we have:
The Mount makes a reflex save.
If the mount fails the reflex save the rider has a choice to either stay in the saddle (via the Ride skill "Stay in Saddle") or to fall off of the mount.
Assuming he falls off of the mount he should now get his own reflex saving throw to avoid the pit.
If he saves he must still roll the "Soft Fall" check since he just fell off of his mount.

[Jiggy]

ohako wrote:

so, the consensus is that if a mage casts create pit under your mount, then your mount, if it makes a successful Reflex save, can jump to safety and take you with it (with a possible Mario/Yoshi vibe going on).

So, say your mount has evasion (which many animal companions get), but you don't. If you're both subjected to a fireball while you're mounted, then you can save for at best half damage, but your mount can save to negate?

In one case, your mount's reflexes directly impact whether or not you fall into a pit. In the other case, your mount's reflexes mean nothing to you, and you get roasted or toasted purely on your own merits.

Right?

That's because fireball is Yoshi's revenge, as he avoids damage by using you as a human shield.

[Dave Justus]

Jiggy wrote:

Dave Justus wrote:

From mounted combat: If Your Mount Falls in Battle: If your mount falls, you have to succeed on a DC 15 Ride check to make a soft fall and take no damage. If the check fails, you take 1d6 points of damage.

Now the fall here is like a fallen soldier, not falling down a pit, but the basic idea that it is possible to get off your mount when it isn't your turn remains.

I don't see anything in the rule you quoted that indicates you actually get off your mount. All I see is softening the impact to prevent some damage.

Soft fall is also described under the ride skill, slightly differently: Soft Fall: You negate damage when you fall off a mount. If you fail the Ride check, you take 1d6 points of damage and are prone. This usage does not take an action.

So if you make the check you are not prone, and obviously not on your mount.

[Jiggy]

But first you have to fall off. Soft Fall doesn't take you off your mount, it lets you prevent damage when you're already falling off your mount for some other reason.

[Dave Justus]

Yes, but that reason can be that your mount has just been killed underneath you, presumably not on your turn.

As I initially said, it isn't an exact parallel to your mount falling into a pit, or off a cliff or something. It is similar however, and obviously a character can react in some way to their mount suddenly failing to be supporting them as it should. I don't think their are clear RAW rules on this. However, a reflex save to allow a ride check or a ride check followed by a reflex save seems appropriate to me.

[Gauss]

The ride check should not be necessary to allow a reflex save. The rules for "Stay on the Horse" show that you can be thrown from a horse (for example, if it rears). That does not take any action on your part.

So, the horse falls into the pit and you fall off as a direct consequence. Now the question is, do you make the reflex save or do you fall in the pit on top of the horse?

[thorin001]

Staying on horse take no action. Avoiding damage from horse falling on you takes no action. Dismounting takes an action.

[Gauss]

thorin001,

Falling off the horse also takes no action. It is in response to external forces such as taking damage or the horse rearing up. This is not a dismount, this is a fall off the horse situation.