I want to a make a druid that fights with a pack of armored wolves, while I support from behind.
How many wolves can I have?
Is this effective?
What spells do you recommend?
What Feats do you recommend?
I'm new to druids.
The Pack Lord Druid archetype lets you have multiple animal companions but you have to split your druid level between each one. For example, a 4th-level pack lord can have one 4th-level companion, two 2nd-level companions, or one 1st-level and one 3rd-level companion, or four 1st-level companions. In my opinion even with the boon companion feat having more then one really is not worth it, but if your just going for flavor you can go nuts.
Pack Lord seems great at low levels but increasingly less effective as you level. Two wolves at 2nd level kicks butt. Even 4 at 4th level is pretty effective. But by the time you hit 7th level plus you soon have a either a lot of largely ineffective companions or 1 effective and 1 non effective.
It might do this if I wanted to do something non-combat related with my companions like 8th level: a 6th level combat companion and 1 or two utility companions like a bird and small animal for scouting ala the "beastmaster".
The answer isn't no, but the answer is "What do you want to have?"
Ok, so by taking a very particular order of classes and feats. You can have approximately 80hd of animal companion, more than half of which will be wargs (Basically wolves)
Following this, I may be able to squeeze in viable wolf-summoning... Via Wolf Shaman.
up to you
It is also important to note that you will take a hit in caster level, i can get you roughly 60HD of animal companion and only see you lose out on about 4cl..
The answer isn't no, but the answer is "What do you want to have?"
Ok, so by taking a very particular order of classes and feats. You can have approximately 80hd of animal companion, more than half of which will be wargs (Basically wolves)
Following this, I may be able to squeeze in viable wolf-summoning... Via Wolf Shaman.
up to you
I wanted about 7-8 wolves
I appreciate everyone's input. If you had to make a druid with a about 7-8 wolves what build would you suggest(feats, spells, etc.) I don't want the stereotypical druid. My druids theme is wolves, thus the wolf pack. I love the concept. I just need to make it viable. Btw my DM isn't by the books, and tends to be more realistic, so feel free to cut loose.
I would maybe consider Wolf Shaman plus Pack Lord archetypes. Just do two permanent wolf companions. So you don't have to split the levels too much. Get the feat boon companion twice one for each wolf. At lvl 20 both would function as lvl 14. Then when you want more wolfs for a short period you summon them.
There is also a Ranger archetype that lets you have multiple companions but they are going to be super gimped until lvl 12. Plus you loose one of your Ranger feats.
Another completely different option would be the Master Summoner archetype for the Summoner. But all of your wolfs would be summons and not companions, however you could focus on making your eidolon very wolf like.
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Actually, I would just use a Wolf Shaman, have one wolf companion that is always there, and then use Summon Nature's Ally Spells to summon more wolves as standard actions for the rest of the pack. That way you still have a powerful companion, and the ability to have several other Wolves out in a fight when you need them.
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You could also have one wolf companion (the "alpha") and as many wolves as you like who are just regular animals and not "companion" animals. Just train them via the Handle Animal skill. As you go up in level, train or breed more powerful wolves.
The only limit is your imagination and the amount of hair your GM has, because he or she will be pulling it out in handfuls from having to deal with managing that many animal followers. :)
I would come at it from a less optimal direction. I would make a Feral Child who was raised by wolves. You have to be human, take an Animal Companion, and never get wildshape. The idea here is to take Spell Focus Conjuration, Augment Summoning and Superior Summoning by 5th level and to figure out what the campaign is all about to see which of Moonlight, Starlight and Sunlight Summons will be useful to you. Spend the rest of your feats on Item Creation feats or all around good feats like Improved Initiative and Toughness.
You have a wolf AC, you use Handle Animal to train any canines you come across into your pack. Use the spell Locate Animals or Plants to find all the Wolves, Dire Wolves and Dogs you can and train them. It doesn't really matter how good they are at fighting. They clog up the battlefield and make it very hard for monsters to get by the front line to the casters and archers. They are also expendable, they cost nothing but time and effort to get and death in combat is natural. Also make use of Summon Nature's Ally spells to get even more wolves who are even more expendable.
Great idea guys thanks
Ok... this will seem odd
Paladin 5
Pack lord Druid 1
Cavalier 4
Mammoth rider 1
cleric 9
So you wont really be a druid BUT
Human
level 1:
*Paladin 1
*Effective Druid Level(0)
-Nature Soul
-Skill focus Nature
Level 3:
Paladin 3
Effective Druid Level(0)
Level 5:
Paladin 5
Effective Druid Level(7)
Animal Ally
Level 7:
Paladin 5/ Druid 1/ Cavalier 1
Effective Druid Level(11)
Monstrous Mount (Warg)
level 9
Paladin 5/ Druid 1/ Cavalier 3
Effective Druid Level(21)
Eldritch Heritage(Slyvan)
Level 11
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1
Effective Druid Level(34)(4 level 7's and one level 6)
Horse Lord
Level 13
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 2)
Effective Druid Level(45)
Boon Companion
Level 15
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 4
Effective Druid Level(57)
Boon Companion
level 17
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 6
Effective Druid Level(70)
Boon Companion
Level 19
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 8
Effective druid level(80)
Greater Monstrous mount
(EDL 85 at level 20)which is 5 level 17 Wolves/wargs
You just have to keep track, anything that is not restricted (Animal domain, Druid, Eldrich Heritage) can be wolves, the rest must be wargs.... Though a warg is a good pet.
on a side note, if the swing from pali to druid f~%*s with your alignment too hard, you can clear it with you DM for the Huntmaster cavalier to open for the prereq of Horselord
Thanks that's really detailed
Ok... this will seem odd
Paladin 5
Pack lord Druid 1
Cavalier 4
Mammoth rider 1
cleric 9So you wont really be a druid BUT
Humanlevel 1:
*Paladin 1
*Effective Druid Level(0)
-Nature Soul
-Skill focus NatureLevel 3:
Paladin 3
Effective Druid Level(0)
Level 5:
Paladin 5
Effective Druid Level(7)
Animal Ally
Level 7:
Paladin 5/ Druid 1/ Cavalier 1
Effective Druid Level(11)
Monstrous Mount (Warg)
level 9
Paladin 5/ Druid 1/ Cavalier 3
Effective Druid Level(21)
Eldritch Heritage(Slyvan)
Level 11
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1
Effective Druid Level(34)(4 level 7's and one level 6)
Horse LordLevel 13
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 2)
Effective Druid Level(45)
Boon CompanionLevel 15
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 4
Effective Druid Level(57)
Boon Companionlevel 17
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 6
Effective Druid Level(70)
Boon CompanionLevel 19
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 8
Effective druid level(80)
Greater Monstrous mount
(EDL 85 at level 20)which is 5 level 17 Wolves/wargsYou just have to keep track, anything that is not restricted (Animal domain, Druid, Eldrich Heritage) can be wolves, the rest must be wargs.... Though a warg is a good pet.
I'm so confused. How do you have an effective druid level of 7 at 5th level? Is there a feat or ability that I'm missing?
Don't forget to get leadership and a wolf cohort (assuming it's allowed).
You can't be a Druid and a paladin. You will be an ex-member of one of those classes and thus lies the class features.
You can't be a Druid and a paladin. You will be an ex-member of one of those classes and thus lies the class features.
I've had DM's slide that rule, but you could always request that the Huntmaster AC for cavalier can be used for expert trainer, or you may use Beast master ranger 4, losing a few druid levels but gaining a few feats (Personal power)
I'm so confused. How do you have an effective druid level of 7 at 5th level? Is there a feat or ability that I'm missing?Ok... this will seem odd
Paladin 5
Pack lord Druid 1
Cavalier 4
Mammoth rider 1
cleric 9So you wont really be a druid BUT
Humanlevel 1:
*Paladin 1
*Effective Druid Level(0)
-Nature Soul
-Skill focus NatureLevel 3:
Paladin 3
Effective Druid Level(0)
Level 5:
Paladin 5
Effective Druid Level(7)
Animal Ally
Level 7:
Paladin 5/ Druid 1/ Cavalier 1
Effective Druid Level(11)
Monstrous Mount (Warg)
level 9
Paladin 5/ Druid 1/ Cavalier 3
Effective Druid Level(21)
Eldritch Heritage(Slyvan)
Level 11
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1
Effective Druid Level(34)(4 level 7's and one level 6)
Horse LordLevel 13
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 2)
Effective Druid Level(45)
Boon CompanionLevel 15
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 4
Effective Druid Level(57)
Boon Companionlevel 17
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 6
Effective Druid Level(70)
Boon CompanionLevel 19
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 8
Effective druid level(80)
Greater Monstrous mount
(EDL 85 at level 20)which is 5 level 17 Wolves/wargsYou just have to keep track, anything that is not restricted (Animal domain, Druid, Eldrich Heritage) can be wolves, the rest must be wargs.... Though a warg is a good pet.
Animal ally specifically stacks with mount/animal companion: At level 5 you'd have a level 2 pet and a level 5 pet, of which would probably be both horses, or if your DM is nice a riding wolf, but you technically have no acccess to a wolf or warg until level 7 in this build
the problem is, animal ally states that you can't:
" must not have an animal companion or mount that advances as an animal companion."
the paladin's divine bond states:
"This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the paladin's level as her effective druid level."
So at this point, the feat doesn't qualify.
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Eh, you're a druid so skip the archetypes and get better companions the caster way.
AWAKEN!!
As soon as you are able to take leadership and cast awaken on your Wolf companion and have it take levels in Ranger (getting it's own animal companion wolf) and take it as a cohort. Then simply cast awaken as often as you want and lead your own pack of hyper-intelligent, physically superior, class level having super wolves.
That's how you really have a viable pack of wolves who accept you as their leader while still being a viable threat to anything that challenges you.
Ok... this will seem odd
Paladin 5
Pack lord Druid 1
Cavalier 4
Mammoth rider 1
cleric 9So you wont really be a druid BUT
Humanlevel 1:
*Paladin 1
*Effective Druid Level(0)
-Nature Soul
-Skill focus NatureLevel 3:
Paladin 3
Effective Druid Level(0)
Level 5:
Paladin 5
Effective Druid Level(7)
Animal Ally
Level 7:
Paladin 5/ Druid 1/ Cavalier 1
Effective Druid Level(11)
Monstrous Mount (Warg)
level 9
Paladin 5/ Druid 1/ Cavalier 3
Effective Druid Level(21)
Eldritch Heritage(Slyvan)
Level 11
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1
Effective Druid Level(34)(4 level 7's and one level 6)
Horse LordLevel 13
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 2)
Effective Druid Level(45)
Boon CompanionLevel 15
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 4
Effective Druid Level(57)
Boon Companionlevel 17
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 6
Effective Druid Level(70)
Boon CompanionLevel 19
Paladin 5/ Cavalier 4/ Druid 1/ Mammoth Rider 1/ Cleric 8
Effective druid level(80)
Greater Monstrous mount
(EDL 85 at level 20)which is 5 level 17 Wolves/wargsYou just have to keep track, anything that is not restricted (Animal domain, Druid, Eldrich Heritage) can be wolves, the rest must be wargs.... Though a warg is a good pet.
I don't see how this works out to allowing all your ACs/mounts to progress to 17HD. The way I read Horse Master - "Benefit: Use your character level to determine your effective druid level for determining the powers and abilities of your mount." - is that one nominated animal that is your mount (and you are riding) can use your CL as druid level. You may have multiple mounts, but Horse Master only applies to one.
So, your Paladin mount would be level 5 (Paladin level), Cavalier mount level 17 (Your actual mount to which Horse master applies, druid level = CL), Druid AC level 1 (never progresses), Cleric AC Level 9 (druid level = Cleric Level-3 +4(Boon)), Animal Ally Level 17 (druid level = CL-3 +4(boon)) and Eldritch Heritage AC 16 (druid level = CL -2(EH) -3(Fey) +4(Boon)).
Your overall effective druid level is 65, which could admittedly be split between a smaller pool of ACs/mounts to get 3 fully levelled ACs. Unfortunately the character riding on top is pretty useless given the feat investments, multiclassing and MAD.
Would that really work with awaken? Awaken the choose ranger class get a companion and repeat?
It would work in the same sense that getting leadership and a cohort with leadership, and so forth.
Simply awakening a bunch of wolves would allow you to take one as a cohort (but leadership only gives you one). The rest would be about as loyal to you as a villager.
If you DM will allow you to have your cohorts have animal companions and cohorts (who also have cohorts and animal companions...) its possible by rules. Most DM's either ban leadership outright or don't allow cohorts to take it.
I'd never allow 1 player to play that many characters at my table, unless it was a 1 player campaign... Most we permit at our tables is 4, and that's if you take quick turns (4 melee swinging 1 weapon each turn takes a lot less time than 4 casters all doing something different...)
Eh, you're a druid so skip the archetypes and get better companions the caster way.
AWAKEN!!
As soon as you are able to take leadership and cast awaken on your Wolf companion and have it take levels in Ranger (getting it's own animal companion wolf) and take it as a cohort. Then simply cast awaken as often as you want and lead your own pack of hyper-intelligent, physically superior, class level having super wolves.
That's how you really have a viable pack of wolves who accept you as their leader while still being a viable threat to anything that challenges you.
This would have been my suggestion.
But all that does is create a pack of smart wolves. It doesn't make them any more loyal than non awakened wolves...
Let me specify here. What you are talking about is making allies, rather than animal companions or cohorts. This is the same thing as recruiting random villagers to fight for you. If your DM wants to allow such a campaign then run with it.
Be careful though, for this will quickly get into the territory of mass combat rules. If that's what you are looking for run with it, an army of awakened wolves is interesting.
On a similar not, awakening is not needed (unless you really want them to be intelligent). There is nothing (other than DM approval) stopping you from simply using wild empathy to make wolves friendly then helpful to you. You can then spend downtime between adventures to train your wolves to fight for you. Animal Training.
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You have a wolf AC, you use Handle Animal to train any canines you come across into your pack. Use the spell Locate Animals or Plants to find all the Wolves, Dire Wolves and Dogs you can and train them. It doesn't really matter how good they are at fighting. They clog up the battlefield and make it very hard for monsters to get by the front line to the casters and archers. They are also expendable, they cost nothing but time and effort to get and death in combat is natural. Also make use of Summon Nature's Ally spells to get even more wolves who are even more expendable.
This spell might be helpful here:
Call AnimalAnd, of course Charm Animal
You can go into the woods and spam these two until a wolf pack shows up. Handle/Charm Animal until they follow you around or accept you as one of their own. A Wolf Shaman would be especially likely to do this effectively.
Hopefully, they don't decide that they're more hungry than friendly.
I imagine that an enthusiastic GM might make CR / Level appropriate wolves or dire wolves available as you gain levels.